Questions about Online Chat logs

Hello,

My SO and I frequently use facebook as a means to keep in contact with each other and sometimes use msn messenger as well. I know that messenger has a means of recording chat histories and FB does not. Should we switch to using msn all the time so we can have record of our chats to use for evidence of contact? My main concern is that we have talked and probably will talk again about marriage before we've met. If the people in charge of issuing visas find out about this, could we be denied?

Thanks

Lots of things on the internet constitute contact I think--MSN, AIM, Facebook, Myspace, and emails. It'll prolly be easiest to log things like MSN and emails, but you don't need to show every single conversation, as far as I know (think of how big that app would be). I think being able to show regular contact is important, so even screenshots of your inbox will work since it shows that you two are in contact on a fairly consistent basis.

As for whether or not they'd catch discussions of marriage--like I said, you don't have to include every conversation you have, so I don't really think you have to worry about it.

But then again, I'm not an expert I'll be mainly using phone records and my marriage certificate in my application, so other people will more likely than not have better advice than I can give.

Hey that helps! I do still have 3 used international phone cards. Should I keep this for evidence? The screen shot idea is good! I have saved all of the pm's she's sent me on FB so I can ss those for sure. Also, I guess I would go to my mobile provider to get a history of phone calls?

When I applied for my fiance visa, I didn't want to overwhelm them with all the sources...so I provided just a few MSN conversations where we talked about our plans (those bits highlighted) and then I did a printout of my e-mail inbox, filtering to just e-mails from him, as well as a few mobile phone bills spread out over 2 years to show where we stayed in contact.

For when you meet in person, photos are another option. I included just 6 photos...one from each time one of us visited one another during that time.

I can't say honestly if they even looked at these, but it's my understanding to just give them a "sprinkle" (if you will) of your proof of contact. The bigger issues will be proving your finances and things like that.

Also, off topic...where are you from in Ohio? I'm actually originally from Columbus.

Zanesville, Ohio, about an hour from Columbus. Cool to meet another person from Ohio so close.

When I applied for my fiance visa, I didn't want to overwhelm them with all the sources...so I provided just a few MSN conversations where we talked about our plans (those bits highlighted) and then I did a printout of my e-mail inbox, filtering to just e-mails from him, as well as a few mobile phone bills spread out over 2 years to show where we stayed in contact.

For when you meet in person, photos are another option. I included just 6 photos...one from each time one of us visited one another during that time.

I can't say honestly if they even looked at these, but it's my understanding to just give them a "sprinkle" (if you will) of your proof of contact. The bigger issues will be proving your finances and things like that.

Also, off topic...where are you from in Ohio? I'm actually originally from Columbus.

I just read your signature. Did you get a fiance visa and stay in the US for a while during that visa?

I'll say it one more time.

Submitting chat logs not a requirement, they do not demonstrate a relationship.  For all the ECO knows, the logs could have been recorded/forged by the applicant and a drag queen in Kabul.  We have enough problems verifying the authenticity of bank statements and tenancy agreements, much less chat logs.

But worse still, chat logs are read with a dispassionate and critical eye.  So the comments, "...I spent the whole day waiting for you to come online..." or "...I can't wait to get married..." or "...I can't wait to live in England..." or "...How long does it take to get the visa..."  can all backfire with devastating effect.

I have true cases in my archives where innocent banter was misread and caused harm to the applicant.  It has screwed up people's lives.  So if somebody *INSISTS* that they cannot substantiate a relationship without chat logs, then at least let a dispassionate reviewer examine them first.

As a personal note, the most convincing evidence of a substantive relationship is drawn from the real world rather than cyberspace. 

To be fair, many people have submitted chat logs and it was fine.  Just take it to mind that there's risk and a big-time downside if it backfires...

I'll say it one more time.

Submitting chat logs not a requirement, they do not demonstrate a relationship.  For all the ECO knows, the logs could have been recorded/forged by the applicant and a drag queen in Kabul.  We have enough problems verifying the authenticity of bank statements and tenancy agreements, much less chat logs.

But worse still, chat logs are read with a dispassionate and critical eye.  So the comments, "...I spent the whole day waiting for you to come online..." or "...I can't wait to get married..." or "...I can't wait to live in England..." or "...How long does it take to get the visa..."  can all backfire with devastating effect.

I have true cases in my archives where innocent banter was misread and caused harm to the applicant.  It has screwed up people's lives.  So if somebody *INSISTS* that they cannot substantiate a relationship without chat logs, then at least let a dispassionate reviewer examine them first.

As a personal note, the most convincing evidence of a substantive relationship is drawn from the real world rather than cyberspace. 

To be fair, many people have submitted chat logs and it was fine.  Just take it to mind that there's risk and a big-time downside if it backfires...

Thank you Garry, I'll definately keep that in mind! All I need for a fiance visa is to show that we've met in real life and intend to marry correct? Would then photos of us together be good enough for the real life proof, and for proof of intent to marry, I could use selective chat logs where we talk about this? Or could I use something else to prove intent?

Yes, I think people think they need to prove this giant huge relationship for a fiancée visa, when in reality, people applying from the US don't have that big of a hurdle to get over.

Conjurus, you hit it on the head, you have met (a photo or two of you together) and you intend to get married (you put a date in your introduction letter).  Showing that you have carried on contact, through letters or cards (real ones) or maybe a couple of e-mails since the last time you met also demonstrates a continuation of a relationship.

Thanks kitsonk. Could you help me understand what an introduction letter is?

lol I have so many questions ><

Real world stuff is the best.  UK/US entry/exit stamps, photos at recognizable locales that are seasonally in synch with the entry/exit stamps, avoid self-portraits taken with mobile.  

A dinner photo at a recognizable restaurant and include the bill is quite strong.

There's generally no reason to submit more than 2  - 3 photos if the relationship is genuine.

And yes, the objective is to demonstrate that the couple have met and intend to marry.  Unfortunately some interpret this requirement as the need to show that they are obsessed.  Apples and oranges.

And a good resource, Garry's website, is here: http://londonelegance.com/transpondia/fiance/

An introduction letter, would simply be a letter, put on top of the stack of the application that introduces you and what you are sending.  There are some sample letters on Garry's site as well.  The Sponsor's letter could also state the planned date of the wedding.

Great, thank you all so much for your help!

I was thinking about all this while trying to go to sleep last night (Yeah, just woke up over here, I'm nursing a coffee), and I think the others have brought up points I wanted to but forgot to. Sometimes screenshots can be photoshopped, so I think as long as you include RL evidence as well--phone bills, photos, visa stamps, etc, those would better reinforce that evidence you'd get online.

And like Garry says, you don't need oodles of paperwork to prove the relationship is genuine as long as you have those things like phone bills and such. Just enough to show that you've met, it's a genuine relationship, and that you are in reasonable contact for a couple that's in love, and that (at the point of the application) you are intending to get married

And like Garry says, you don't need oodles of paperwork to prove the relationship is genuine as long as you have those things like phone bills and such. Just enough to show that you've met, it's a genuine relationship.

Especially since this is such a low hurdle for US applicants to clear (this is not always the case for applicants from other countries,) if you can't provide enough real world examples to clear it, it's a real problem. In the entire time I've been reading this site, I think I saw only one case where the visa was rejected cause the ECO didn't think the relationship was genuine.