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I think that the reaction may depend on whether people like you as an individual or not, and whether they perceive you as being deliberately "in your face".

I have had complete strangers correct my language when I am speaking to my boyfriend or friends in public places.  How is that all "in your face"?

Legs Akimbo, Finnish must be such a cool language to learn, but I'd have to disagree that you can become fluent in a European language after three months if immersion.  It's a rarely talented person who can do that.  Most people would require at least a year, and adult learners would likely also need additional instruction. 

Are you talking about fluency or near native proficiency?  Most of my fellow exchange students were fluent in Western and Northern European languages (dreaming in them) well before the six month mark.  Of course, teenagers are going to pick them up a lot easier than adults, but not as easy as children would.

Are you talking about fluency or near native proficiency?  Most of my fellow exchange students were fluent in Western and Northern European languages (dreaming in them) well before the six month mark.  Of course, teenagers are going to pick them up a lot easier than adults, but not as easy as children would.

"Fluency" from a teacher's perspective actually doesn't have anything to do with knowledge or proficiency; it is a measure of communicative ability.  I have taught beginners who are extremely fluent, meaning the words come quickly and they express themselves effectively, but they are not accurate and lack vocabulary.  Dreaming in a language doesn't necessarily indicate anything either, I've had students who have never been immersed in a language but who dream in it. Children definitely learn languages more easily, but I still think that it takes all but exceptional learners at least a year of immersion before they develop anything like proficiency (meaning a C1 level in the Common European language framework).  6 months would probably take you from beginner to B1 or B2. 

Fluency from my perspective doesn't have to do with knowledge either, but the ability to use a language in day to day life.  In my experience, it describes the ability to use and understand a language, which usually involves thinking in that language.

The reason dreams are often used as a benchmark for fluency is because it signals that you are thinking in that language which removes the step of translation.  I should have been specific though.  Just dreaming with people speaking that language or having some words in that language isn't an indication of fluency.  I've dreamt about people speaking Finnish and even me speaking (or trying to speak) Finnish, but those aren't the dreams I (and others who talk about dreaming as indicating fluency) are talking about.

What I am talking about is having a dream and realising half-way through it is all and truly in that language, including your own thoughts and any narrative. [Edit: And if you understand it of course, and it's really in that language]

Of course there will be exceptions, but most people I've known who have used immersion on exchanges will use this as a good indication that you're fluent.  Of course, these aren't teachers, and it's interesting to hear a teacher's take on it.  Fluency, I suppose, is up to interpretation, but I'd really find it odd if the majority of people were taking a year to learn say French, Spanish or Dutch to a level where they could understand most of what was said and communicate naturally. [Edit: If they were taking that long, especially for Dutch, I'd question whether they were actually spending too much time exposed to English even before I questioned their natural ability to pick up languages or factored age in.]

Oh, I knew what you meant with the dreams, and it's those dreams I'm talking about.  It's not uncommon for students in intensive language programs to have them, regardless of level.  It has more to do with how hard they're studying than how well they speak.  I think part of the reason for the conflict in our viewpoints is that there are so many variables involved.  For an adult learner to go from zero to B2 in six months from immersion alone would be remarkable.  With the addition of regular instruction it's possible.  For learners who have already had instruction, six months of immersion could get them to C1, if they were dedicated.  Also, teachers tend to be cynical about immersion experiences because we know that especially for exchange students they are rarely perfect immersion--students tend to gravitate towards others
who speak their language, even when studying in a
different country.

NB: The Common European Framework for languages has six levels, starting with A1, which is complete beginner, to C2, which is high-level proficiency.  Most foreign language learners don't progress past B2, which is the level at which people can communicate pretty effectively, and which is often the minimum requirement for studying at a foreign university.  (At least, in the UK and France that is the minimum).  I can tell you from personal experience that the jump fro
 B2 to C1 is extremely difficult, much more so than A2 to B1, or even C1 to C2.  It's known as "the intermediate plateau." Immersion would certainly make the transition easier, but to be really effective it would need to be supplemented by formal instruction. 

Formal instruction is usually a part of most exchange programmes.  The responsible ones anyway. ETA: For instance, we had a two week language camp followed by weekly Finnish courses that were about 3 hours long.  I would have been happier with a daily lesson though.  This was with Rotary International, but I think it's pretty standard for general long term exchanges.  Some of the people who were what I and others consider fluent at 3-6 months were 18-19.

Out of curiosity, do you speak a second language, and if you do, do you consider yourself fluent?

Yes, I speak French, and am certified at the C2 level--I have the Diplome Approfondi de Langue Francaise or DALF--so I am highly proficient, but fluency is something I continue to struggle with.  I understand everything and can read and write well, but speaking remains a challenge, mostly because I am afraid to make mistakes.  I studied in France for six months but there were too many other Americans on the programme and I spoke too much English.  My fault, of course, and something I deeply regret. If I had had a proper immersion I think I'd have managed to get over the fear.  I can and do speak well, but just not as easily as I should do at my level.  A lot of fluency is simple confidence.  So I guess if you're talking pure fluency, six months immersion would go a long way towards developing that, but proficiency takes longer and requires formal instruction.  The best way to learn a language is probably to move as a child to a country where it is spoken and study it in school.  Would that we all had that opportunity.     

One of the funniest things you will learn quickly with Finnish curse words is their word for pi$$ and their word for six is just one vowel off.  Most foreigners learn to count as the equivalent of "One, two, three, four, five, pi$$, seven..."

Think Finnish is fun, try Burmese. I can make nasal noises in the back of my throat that I swore was impossible. But I preservered and have amazed many Burmese on 2 accounts - a foreigner that can speak it somewhat and pronounce the words fairly correctly. Reading and writing - no chance. It's all squiggles to me. Still is. It's an art form. There is no direct spelling using our alphabet. So the words are at the whim of the person spelling the word. For example thank you is written only one way in the squiggles but in our alphabet it may be written Chey zu bay, chezu ba, Kyay zu bei, as well as several other variations. It's a nightmare.

The Burmese verbs have 3 diffrent meanings all with the same pronunciation, just a slight change in the end of the word: soft, soft but slightly elongated (sort of a drop at the end) and soft but slightly sharper. Hard to describe but takes a long time to actually detect it everyday speech. And even harder to master it. One verb LO, only has two meanings. And its pronunciations are the soft and the soft elongated slightly. The meanings are to work and to fcuk. Once a maid, not ours!!, was really upset because a foreigner thought he could speak Burmese and asked her to work on Saturday, her day off. He pronounced it wrong and basically asked to do something other than work on Saturday. She left mortified and did not return. Well it wouldn't have been the first time a foreigner has tried it on with their maid.

The verbs have the same pronunciation but with 3 different meanings based on the intonations (?) as above. LO is the only one with 2 meanings. So Burmese kids learning their language at school go through a series of exercises where they practice aloud as a class and it goes, with the 3 pronunciations, 
ba ba ba
cha cha cha
ka ka ka
lo lo lo
ta ta ta
sa sa sa
etc...

So with LO, they actually learn a word that means to work, one that does even exist and one that is not allowed to be used until they are grown up (in theory).

And my kids found it hilarious with the numbers; nit, tit, thone... number 8 is sh*t.

Did one of the bad words start with a "v"?  If it did, it is worse than the f-word because it translates to the English word that a lot of people think is worse.  The odd thing is that one of their other biggies just translates to "the devil" and starts with a "p".  Satan is pretty bad as well.  

One of the funniest things you will learn quickly with Finnish curse words is their word for pi$$ and their word for six is just one vowel off.  Most foreigners learn to count as the equivalent of "One, two, three, four, five, pi$$, seven..."

Hehe!  You can tell Finnish is tough, because I know which curse words you're referring to, but my friend explained them differently to me.  Here's what I was told in order from least bad to most bad word:

1. Finnish "v"-word = English "f"-word

2. Finnish "s"-word/"satan" word has no English equivalent

3. Finnish "p"-word has no English equivalent

We were both working on a cruise ship at the time, so it's entirely possible that we were drunk when he taught me all this, which would explain the difference between our translations. 

Hehe, my partner lived in Finland for a while and can attest to how hard it is. He managed to learn enough, through immersion and no formal lessons, to speak to the level of about a 5 year old. I know exactly what words you're talking about, they're his favourite

Hehe, my partner lived in Finland for a while and can attest to how hard it is. He managed to learn enough, through immersion and no formal lessons, to speak to the level of about a 5 year old. I know exactly what words you're talking about, they're his favourite

Immersion is the only way, IMO, to truly achieve any sort of fluency.

I was lucky, because the time I lived in France (total of 2 years) there was no internet and phone calls were mega expensive, and NO ONE who spoke other than very basic English, if at all.

It did complete suck a** for about the first 6 months, though.

Hehe!  You can tell Finnish is tough, because I know which curse words you're referring to, but my friend explained them differently to me.  Here's what I was told in order from least bad to most bad word:

1. Finnish "v"-word = English "f"-word

2. Finnish "s"-word/"satan" word has no English equivalent

3. Finnish "p"-word has no English equivalent

We were both working on a cruise ship at the time, so it's entirely possible that we were drunk when he taught me all this, which would explain the difference between our translations.  

V word literally means and is almost the equivalent of the English c word (but a bit more versatile).  Finnish, like a lot of languages, doesn't have a curse that means to have sex, and even the v word doesn't have the versatility of the English f word.

The Finnish word for Satan and the P "devil" word doesn't have English equivalents because we don't think of "Satan" as a swear word.  Really it makes sense that it is a swear word though.  There are actually two "p" words.  One means poo, the other the devil (but more of a pagan sort of thing--Finland didn't become Christian until well after the first millennium AD).  I am not sure where the word for poo falls on the hierarchy.  Oh yeah, the Finnish word for butt also starts with a "P".

Usually I would hear the word for "poo" used (but not alone) and the v word.  But the v word would almost always be preceded by voi.  This is like an exclamation, sort of the way we'd use the f word if we stubbed our toe, but cooler, because we would be using alliteration by using the Finnish (and in doing so, being poetic).

And then you have things like "oral sex" which is literally "mouth sex".  But of course, you have to learn how to conjugate the noun depending on how you were using it.  So would you like oral sex would add three suffixes (IIRC), but it would be the entire sentence, unless you were writing it or needed to be specific in who you were directing it at.

Areyoubob, a lot of Asian languages are heavy on the importance of inflection. It's one of the reasons why they truly seem daunting to me.

DrSuperL99, how long was your partner in Finland (and where if you don't mind me asking)?

I once was friendly enough with a Finnish woman to tell her (after a number of shots of vodka) that all of the Finnish people I had met seemed somewhat crazy. She said, "This is absolutely true. It is due to two things: the long dark winters, and the large amount of vodka that we drink."

Immersion is the only way, IMO, to truly achieve any sort of fluency.

That's certainly true for me. We lived in a non-English-speaking country when I was a child, and I became completely fluent in French. However, I lost it after we moved and now just muddle through like most other people who did high school French.  

He started in Kuru, at forestry college. He also did a semester of university in Turku, and lived in and around Tampere at various times. He worked for a summer at his girlfriend-at-the-time's family's strawberry farm. Put all together he lived there about a year or a little more. He ADORES it.