Doctors anger at news crew

This was just on the news and again I would like to ask for your reaction to this pompas ass who acted like a spoilt child. I think if he tried some thing like that in the US he would be out of a job. This is my view. Care to comment?

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/health-13771099

Well, my view is that the doctor (the senior orthopaedic surgeon in charge of the department being filmed, not a "spoilt child") was absolutely correct, and was doing his job as I would hope and expect. Somebody screwed up and he did his job protecting his patients.  He was not being "pompous" (spelling). Hospital hygiene rules exist for a very very important reason. If that senior doctor would be "out of a job" in the USA for daring to intervene because a crew filming a senior politician's visit flagrantly broke an important health-related hospital rule, (A firing which I don't believe would happen) then that's just one more reason to prefer being sick in the UK. I must say David Cameron was pretty nimble in responding appropriately. The public is already fed up with the NHS being used by politicians for headline fodder and seeing a politician grandstanding at patients bedsides while allowing a film crew to sport rolled down sleeves and presumably (or even possibly) unwashed arms, hands and equipment would have sent entirely the wrong message. My guess is that some shouting has been going on since.

I work in the NHS.  Infection control is serious, serious business, expecially in a post-surgery ward.  If I were a doctor and a news crew came barging into my ward not following the protocol that every single other person has to follow, I'd be furious as well.

It's not pomposity, it's not acting like a spoilt child.  It's his job to keep these patients safe and well.  Bravo to him for doing it.

I absolutely agree with the other posts in this topic.  The surgeon was just following the hygiene standards in place and was angry that the film crew weren't doing the same.  I'd have a lot of respect for a doctor who stood up for his floor like that and would feel much more comfortable in his hands knowing he has a best practice of making sure everyone is up to standard.  Too bad there aren't more doctors and surgeons who are as stringent as he is!

I thought the doctor was spot on. Why is he pompous for reacting like that....so doctors, nurses, visitors have to abide by hygene rules but not camera crews? The look on Cameron's face was priceless.

I'm intrigued that you feel in the US he'd be out of a job? Why? Because he was enforcing rules on politicians?

if it's true that a doctor who stood his ground against camera crews would be fired, that says nothing good at all about the state of US medicine.

I would hope that he'd be out of a job either country if he allowed a photo op to compromise patients' well beings.

Imagine the tabloid headlines if the same thing happened two years ago and instead of Dave it was GB?

I would hope that he'd be out of a job either country if he allowed a photo op to compromise patients' well beings.

Imagine the tabloid headlines if the same thing happened two years ago and instead of Dave it was GB?

Imagine the tabloid headlines if some poor bugger got a staph infection because someone from Sky News hadn't washed his hands before going in there.

Imagine the tabloid headlines if some poor bugger got a staph infection because someone from Sky News hadn't washed his hands before going in there.

To really maximise it, BBC News, GB, the doctor was a migrant from Eastern Europe OR non-white immigrant.  And the patient was a WWII vet/WAC [edit: sorry, WAC was US... UK equivalent was ATS?]

Holy crap, The Mail wouldn't shut up for weeks.

Are we over looking the fact that the hospital had cleared the 'event'??
Why was the doctor wearing street shoes if he so concerned about contamination?

Since posting this I followed up and found something on the 'radical' Daily Mail that supported the doctor. Apparently there was more to this than was reported or covered on the clip.

Sorry, did anyone call the Mail "radical"?  That would be the last word I'd use to describe it.

As for the surgeon wearing street shoes, I am not sure if that is what was making him upset.  I am sure someone more familiar with the NHS policies on contamination better can explain exactly what the reporters were doing that upset the surgeon.  I thought it had to do with proximity and people disregarding safety procedures even if Dave's presence was cleared with the hospital (or not).  Also, street shoes don't literally need to be worn on the street.  Perhaps he only wears those on the ward?  He indicated that staff wasn't allowed that close to the patient...maybe he meant without scrubbing in and putting on scrubs?

I am not sure why a medical professional requiring people staging a photo op to do anything no matter how ludicrous it is to us, including leave, should be questioned by people who are not directly responsible for the care of those patients.  If the administrators of the hospital have an issue with the surgeon's actions, it would be up to them to raise the issue with him.  Until you are responsible for someone's recovery which could mean the difference between a good quality of life after or long recovery from MRSA or worse, I don't see where you can get off classifying someone who is as childish and petulant.

ETA: Found a fuller explanation on the "radical" Guardian site:

http://www.guardian.co.uk/politics/2011/jun/15/real-world-politicians-spin

I still don't think that the surgeon was being unreasonable.  It might not have been the PM's fault that they were misinformed about safety measures, but I don't think that the surgeon overreacted or was acting like an ass or childish.

I think at least part of it is that the camera crew, apparently, had not removed ties and rolled up sleeves, which is part of the NHS protocol for infection control.  (If you look at the video, you will notice Cameron has done this, but the crew wasn't briefed properly or something). In addition, they are moving around an entire ward, from bed to bed, which is categorically different from one person coming in to visit a specific patient and could make infection worryingly easy to transmit from patient to patient.

A few of my nursing friends have suggested that part of the surgeon's frustration probably stemmed from the fact that, though it has not actually been shown to help, he and all of his staff must have no ties/sleeves rolled up, and then the rules were not enforced all along the line. And hospital PR clearing an event is one thing, a doctor looking out for his patients' welfare is something else--and trust me, someone is going to hear about the reasons the camera crew wasn't following protocol.

Are we over looking the fact that the hospital had cleared the 'event'??

The concern isn't about the event taking place.  The concern is about people not following infection control guidelines during the event.  Clearly Cameron and Clegg knew about these guidelines as they were in short sleeves, weren't wearing watches, and weren't wearing ties.  The camera crews weren't.

Why was the doctor wearing street shoes if he so concerned about contamination?

your shoes are massively unlikely to come into contact with a patient.  Your sleeves are not.

This is all part of a policy called "bare below the elbows" which is a protocol for reducing infection.  Details can be found here.

http://www.northerntrust.hscni.net/pdf/Bare_Below_the_Elbow_Policy.pdf


EDIT: this is the policy from a hospital in Ireland, but the same standard applies.

Well I laughed when I saw this. The look on both Nick and David's face was priceless.

Completely legitimate concern. I'm disappointed that it wasn't addressed by the people who "cleared" the event because they all have to do the infection control course too. Service user and staff safety is everyone's business.