Hello
Guest

Sponsored Links


Topic: Here are some US Vanguard Funds that are HMRC Reporting funds!!  (Read 16821 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

  • *
  • Posts: 1912

  • Liked: 58
  • Joined: Apr 2008
Here are some US Vanguard Funds that are HMRC Reporting funds!!
« on: February 28, 2012, 03:32:50 PM »
If you are a US citizen living in the UK it's generally a bad idea to invest in mutual funds as the US will get you under PFIC rules and HMRC will get you under offshore non-reporting funds rules ie no capital gains exemption and you'll be taxed at your marginal income tax on all gains.

There's no easy way to comply with the IRS rules, but HMRC has published a list of overseas reporting funds. So you can invest in these and be taxed by HMRC like UK based funds. The full list is here

http://www.hmrc.gov.uk/collective/rep-funds.xls

and here are some of the Vanguard funds and corresponding EFTs that it includes. This is an excellent opportunity for US citizens living in the UK who want to invest some after tax money. With a UK cash ISA ladder and a few of these Vanguard funds you can create a very nice low cost investment portfolio that is also relatively easy to deal with from a tax perspective.

Vanguard S&P 500 Value Index Fund Vanguard S&P 500 Value Index Fund - ETF Shares
Vanguard S&P 500 Growth Index Fund Vanguard S&P 500 Growth Index Fund - ETF Shares
Vanguard S&P Mid-Cap 400 Index Fund Vanguard S&P Mid-Cap 400 Index Fund - ETF Shares
Vanguard S&P Mid-Cap 400 Value Index Fund Vanguard S&P Mid-Cap 400 Value Index Fund - ETF Shares
Vanguard S&P Mid-Cap 400 Growth Index Fund Vanguard S&P Mid-Cap 400 Growth Index Fund - ETF Shares
Vanguard S&P Small-Cap 600 Index Fund Vanguard S&P Small-Cap 600 Index Fund - ETF Shares
Vanguard S&P Small-Cap 600 Value Index Fund Vanguard S&P Small-Cap 600 Value Index Fund - ETF Shares
Vanguard S&P Small-Cap 600 Growth Index Fund Vanguard S&P Small-Cap 600 Growth Index Fund - ETF Shares
Vanguard Total Bond Market Index Fund  Vanguard Total Bond Market ETF
Vanguard Short-Term Bond Index Fund Vanguard Short-Term Bond ETF
Vanguard Intermediate-Term Bond Index Fund  Vanguard Intermediate-Term Bond ETF
Vanguard Long-Term Bond Index Fund  Vanguard Long-Term Bond ETF
Vanguard Total Stock Market Index Fund Vanguard Total Stock Market ETF
Vanguard Extended Market Index Fund Vanguard Extended Market ETF
Vanguard Large-Cap Index Fund Vanguard Large-Cap ETF
Vanguard Mid-Cap Index Fund Vanguard Mid-Cap ETF
Vanguard Small-Cap Index Fund Vanguard Small-Cap ETF
Vanguard Value Index Fund Vanguard Value ETF
Vanguard Mid-Cap Value Index Fund Vanguard Mid-Cap Value ETF
Vanguard Small-Cap Value Index Fund Vanguard Small-Cap Value ETF
Vanguard Growth Index Fund Vanguard Growth ETF
Vanguard Mid-Cap Growth Index Fund Vanguard Mid-Cap Growth ETF
Vanguard Small-Cap Growth Index Fund Vanguard Small-Cap Growth ETF
Vanguard 500 Index FundVanguard S&P 500 ETF
Vanguard European Stock Index Fund Vanguard European Stock Index Fund ETF Shares
Vanguard Pacific Stock Index Fund Vanguard Pacific Stock Index Fund ETF Shares
Vanguard Emerging Markets Stock Index Fund Vanguard Emerging Markets Stock Index Fund ETF Shares
Vanguard FTSE All-World ex-US Index Fund Vanguard FTSE All-World ex-US Index Fund ETF Shares
Vanguard Total World Stock Index Fund Vanguard Total World Stock Index Fund ETF Shares
Vanguard FTSE All-World ex-US Small-Cap Index Fund Vanguard FTSE All-World ex-US Small-Cap Index Fund ETF Shares
Vanguard Global ex-U.S. Real Estate Index Fund Vanguard Global ex-U.S. Real Estate ETF
« Last Edit: February 28, 2012, 03:39:15 PM by nun »


  • *
  • Posts: 2638

  • Liked: 107
  • Joined: Dec 2005
Re: Here are some US Vanguard Funds that are HMRC Reporting funds!!
« Reply #1 on: February 29, 2012, 07:06:54 PM »
Have you got ISIN numbers for these? Without these we can't know which (if any) of these funds are the onshore US domestic Vanguard funds with these names as against offshore funds with the same names.

It might be best to ask Vanguard to confirm which of their funds have reporting status as the HMRC list is jolly confusing.


  • *
  • Posts: 1912

  • Liked: 58
  • Joined: Apr 2008
Re: Here are some US Vanguard Funds that are HMRC Reporting funds!!
« Reply #2 on: February 29, 2012, 08:38:04 PM »
The Vanguard funds have CUSIP numbers so are the US funds. I'll check the actual numbers on Vanguard's site
« Last Edit: February 29, 2012, 08:49:42 PM by nun »


  • *
  • Posts: 1912

  • Liked: 58
  • Joined: Apr 2008
Re: Here are some US Vanguard Funds that are HMRC Reporting funds!!
« Reply #3 on: February 29, 2012, 09:00:41 PM »
The CUSIP numbers are for the Vanguard ETFs. The description includes both the mutual fund and the ETF. So the ETF is definitely reporting and I'll ask Vanguard if the mutual fund is too.
« Last Edit: February 29, 2012, 09:05:53 PM by nun »


  • *
  • Posts: 159

  • Liked: 20
  • Joined: Jul 2008
Re: Here are some US Vanguard Funds that are HMRC Reporting funds!!
« Reply #4 on: March 01, 2012, 10:16:14 PM »
It must be tax time as I once again find myself in the UK-Yankee tax forum.  Anyway, what exactly does an HMRC reporting fund mean?  I think I've got two reporting Vanguard funds in my US account.  The exclamation marks indicate that an HRMC reporting fund is a good thing.  Why?  What are the implications? I really don't know.  I just thought, naively perhaps, that with my US investments, when I sold them, I'd have to report any gains (if more than £2000) to HMRC and pay tax (probably top marginal rather than capital gains).  Does a reporting fund eliminate this? 

Any explanation greatly appreciated. 

Regards,
Sam


  • *
  • Posts: 1912

  • Liked: 58
  • Joined: Apr 2008
Re: Here are some US Vanguard Funds that are HMRC Reporting funds!!
« Reply #5 on: March 02, 2012, 12:55:52 AM »
I'm not sure if HMRC taxes you on your worldwide income. Frankly HMRC's residency, ordinarily resident, remittance and arising rules are pretty confusing, but it seems that now most people living on a permanent basis in the UK are taxed on their worldwide income. Owning reporting funds is useful if this is your situation.

An HMRC reporting fund is a good thing as when you sell you'll be taxed by HMRC like on a UK fund, so you can claim the capital gains exemption and will be taxed at CGT rates and not marginal income tax rates. However, every year you should be including dividends and capital gains distributions from your Vanguard funds as given on your 1099DIV on your SA100 and or SA106, and of course any gains from the sale of the funds as shown on your 1099B.



  • *
  • Posts: 1912

  • Liked: 58
  • Joined: Apr 2008
Re: Here are some US Vanguard Funds that are HMRC Reporting funds!!
« Reply #6 on: March 05, 2012, 04:57:13 PM »
I emailed HMRC about which US Vanguard funds are HMRC reporting. The funds are the ETF shares only, NOT the mutual fund, and they are going to change the description in their spreadsheet to avoid confusion. So if you go by the CUSIP number you can't go wrong.
« Last Edit: March 07, 2012, 12:36:28 PM by nun »


  • *
  • Posts: 6

  • Liked: 0
  • Joined: Mar 2012
  • Location: Norfolk, England UK
Re: Here are some US Vanguard Funds that are HMRC Reporting funds!!
« Reply #7 on: March 07, 2012, 11:21:45 AM »
Hi, I am newly joined to this site as a recent UK resident expat USC, this site now being more appropriate for me than britishexpats.com that I frequented as US resident expat UKC.

My question today is reverse to this thread's US Funds acceptable to HMRC. Are there similarly UK Funds for UK resident that are acceptable to IRS?

Thank you in anticipation.
« Last Edit: March 07, 2012, 11:27:30 AM by J.JsOH »


  • *
  • Posts: 169

  • Liked: 14
  • Joined: Dec 2010
Re: Here are some US Vanguard Funds that are HMRC Reporting funds!!
« Reply #8 on: March 07, 2012, 12:32:51 PM »
No. Non-US funds are effectively forbidden for USCs due to PFIC regulations.


  • *
  • Posts: 1912

  • Liked: 58
  • Joined: Apr 2008
Re: Here are some US Vanguard Funds that are HMRC Reporting funds!!
« Reply #9 on: March 07, 2012, 12:38:50 PM »
No. Non-US funds are effectively forbidden for USCs due to PFIC regulations.

Not exactly forbidden, but very very inconvenient.

FYI I emailed Vanguard and asked if they were going to apply for HMRC reporting for their mutual funds as well as the ETFs. I'm waiting for the answer.


  • *
  • Posts: 6

  • Liked: 0
  • Joined: Mar 2012
  • Location: Norfolk, England UK
Re: Here are some US Vanguard Funds that are HMRC Reporting funds!!
« Reply #10 on: March 11, 2012, 10:25:50 AM »
No. Non-US funds are effectively forbidden for USCs due to PFIC regulations.

So where, other than under the mattress, do UK resident USC's put their savings? (or is this another thread/)


  • *
  • Posts: 1289

  • Liked: 111
  • Joined: Jan 2010
Re: Here are some US Vanguard Funds that are HMRC Reporting funds!!
« Reply #11 on: March 11, 2012, 10:43:21 AM »
So where, other than under the mattress, do UK resident USC's put their savings? (or is this another thread/)

Here's a past thread that discusses the problem.

http://talk.uk-yankee.com/index.php?topic=73421.0

John Lewis offers some very good mattresses, with all that space underneath in the base.  :)



  • *
  • Posts: 1912

  • Liked: 58
  • Joined: Apr 2008
Re: Here are some US Vanguard Funds that are HMRC Reporting funds!!
« Reply #12 on: March 11, 2012, 01:24:22 PM »
So where, other than under the mattress, do UK resident USC's put their savings? (or is this another thread/)

A quick summary of reasonable places from a taxation perspective to invest for UK resident USCs. These are for regular people who don't have the resources to buy "film partnerships" or make other sophisticated arrangements

http://britishamericantax.com/doc/Guidelines%20for%20US%20Investors.pdf

In UK

Cash ISA. (note the bold, do not invest in a stocks and shares ISA as it comes under IRS Foreign Trust and PFIC rules)
Individual stocks and bonds that you buy through a broker.
Saving accounts
UK employer sponsored pension plans

In US

Individual stocks and bonds that you buy through a broker.
Saving accounts and CDs
Pension plans, ROTH and IRA
US based funds that are HMRC reporting. Many Vanguard ETFs are HMRC reporting.
« Last Edit: March 11, 2012, 01:26:00 PM by nun »


  • *
  • Posts: 1

  • Liked: 0
  • Joined: May 2012
Re: Here are some US Vanguard Funds that are HMRC Reporting funds!!
« Reply #13 on: May 08, 2012, 04:59:01 PM »
I've recently stumbled upon this forum and am really struggling to understand everything around UK/US taxes and investing.

Just one point to double check here:
The Share ISA comes under the Foreign Trust rules even if you would invest only in the funds listed above in this thread? (no idea if I one can actually invest in these US funds via a Shares ISA - pardon my ignorance!)


  • *
  • Posts: 1912

  • Liked: 58
  • Joined: Apr 2008
Re: Here are some US Vanguard Funds that are HMRC Reporting funds!!
« Reply #14 on: May 08, 2012, 05:24:59 PM »
I've recently stumbled upon this forum and am really struggling to understand everything around UK/US taxes and investing.

Just one point to double check here:
The Share ISA comes under the Foreign Trust rules even if you would invest only in the funds listed above in this thread? (no idea if I one can actually invest in these US funds via a Shares ISA - pardon my ignorance!)

Yes that would be true because the underlying funds don't change the structure of the share ISA.


Sponsored Links





 

coloured_drab