Margaret Thatcher

DW soon learnt about Thatcher when she moved here, she said that in America they had no idea. But she dislikes her now, not to point of celebrating. I and my friends often said we'd have a big party when she died. That didn't happen, a couple of pints in the pub before the football yesterday and discussing what happened years ago is what happened.
My thoughts were - she's an old woman that died, to put things into perspective, she was born in the same year as my parents and outlived them by 5 (dad) and 11 (mum) years, so where is the celebration in that? The damage has already been done, I will not celebrate but I shall not mourn her passing. The funeral I'll be in the pub with locals no doubt discussing what happened 30 years ago.

Back to DW, I digress! So now she sees it more like I do, her dad and sister are Republicans, I heard her on the phone to her dad the other day saying "she was hated in this area because she destroyed communities".

She enabled ordinary Brits living in council houses to buy and own their homes.


In the 50's she was part of a Chemist research team involved in developing emulsifiers for producing Icecream. So the next time you tuck in to a tub of MacKies, don't forget to thank her.

Probably not - best to thank her if you have some Mr Whippy, she enabled more air to put into it so less produce, equals greater profit! http://www.mrwhippyicecream.co.uk/the-history-of-ice-cream/

As for selling off of council houses - wouldn't have been quite so bad had the money been given back to councils to build more housing but it wasn't. It was a fundamentally flawed policy, which decimated public housing stock and is one of the reasons for high housing benefits now because there are far more private landlords as a result.

1. She supported the retention of capital punishment
2. She destroyed the country's manufacturing industry
3. She voted against the relaxation of divorce laws
4. She abolished free milk for schoolchildren ("Margaret Thatcher, Milk Snatcher")
5. She supported more freedom for business (and look how that turned out)
6. She gained support from the National Front in the 1979 election by pandering to the fears of immigration
7. She gerrymandered local authorities by forcing through council house sales, at the same time preventing councils from spending the money they got for selling houses on building new houses (spending on social housing dropped by 67% in her premiership)
8. She was responsible for 3.6 million unemployed - the highest figure and the highest proportion of the workforce in history and three times the previous government. Massaging of the figures means that the figure was closer to 5 million
9. She ignored intelligence about Argentinian preparations for the invasion of the Falkland Islands and scrapped the only Royal Navy presence in the islands
10. The poll tax
11. She presided over the closure of 150 coal mines; we are now crippled by the cost of energy, having to import expensive coal from abroad
12. She compared her "fight" against the miners to the Falklands War
13. She privatised state monopolies and created the corporate greed culture that we've been railing against for the last 5 years
14. She introduced the gradual privatisation of the NHS
15. She introduced financial deregulation in a way that turned city institutions into avaricious money pits
16. She pioneered the unfailing adoration and unquestioning support of the USA
17. She allowed the US to place nuclear missiles on UK soil, under US control
18. Section 28
19. She opposed anti-apartheid sanctions against South Africa and described Nelson Mandela as "that grubby little terrorist"
20. She support the Khmer Rouge in Cambodia and sent the SAS to train their soldiers
21. She allowed the US to bomb Libya in 1986, against the wishes of more than 2/3 of the population
22. She opposed the reunification of Germany
23. She invented Quangos
24. She increased VAT from 8% to 17.5%
25. She had the lowest approval rating of any post-war Prime Minister
26. Her post-PM job? Consultant to Philip Morris tobacco at $250,000 a year, plus $50,000 per speech
27. The Al Yamamah contract
28. She opposed the indictment of Chile's General Pinochet
29. Social unrest under her leadership was higher than at any time since the General Strike
30. She presided over interest rates increasing to 15%
31. BSE
32. She presided over 2 million manufacturing job losses in the 79-81 recession
33. She opposed the inclusion of Eire in the Northern Ireland peace process
34. She supported sanctions-busting arms deals with South Africa
35. Cecil Parkinson, Alan Clark, David Mellor, Jeffrey Archer, Jonathan Aitkin
36. Crime rates doubled under Thatcher
37. Black Wednesday – Britain withdraws from the ERM and the pound is devalued. Cost to Britain - £3.5 billion; profit for George Soros - £1 billion
38. Poverty doubled while she opposed a minimum wage
39. She privatised public services, claiming at the time it would increase public ownership. Most are now owned either by foreign governments (EDF) or major investment houses. The profits don’t now accrue to the taxpayer, but to foreign or institutional shareholders.
40. She cut 75% of funding to museums, galleries and other sources of education
41. In the Thatcher years the top 10% of earners received almost 50% of the tax remissions
42. 21.9% inflation


There is more... None of it was good...

couldn't have put it better myself! Tried to "increase your reputation" but it wouldn't let me on this page!

I and my friends often said we'd have a big party when she died. That didn't happen, a couple of pints in the pub before the football yesterday and discussing what happened years ago is what happened.

For years, just about everyone I know has said they were going to have a big party when ThatBloodyWoman died. But we all just went to the pub on the night, and discussed it quietly.  I know there was a bit of celebrating at George Square and that, but the pub we were in had no no loud celebrating... it was packed to the rafters, but no one was being over the top.  Mainly it was just quiet discussion and people staring at the telly screen.   I've talked to a few who have said that despite how much they hated TBW, they just couldn't bring themselves to celebrate the death of an old lady who had dementia, no matter how horrible she had been.

I might have devoted a bit more energy to the hate-fest myself, but the morning following TBW's death, I learned of the death of one of my ex-partners, and suddenly his death became more important and more real to me.

Some of my friends/colleagues/pub pals are taking the day off work Wednesday to 'tramp the dirt down', but I think that might be the day of my former partner's funeral, so again, I have to prioritise.  I'm very glad to see the back of her, but I just don't have the energy to mourn one person and say 'rot in hell' to someone else.

My thoughts were - she's an old woman that died, to put things into perspective, she was born in the same year as my parents and outlived them by 5 (dad) and 11 (mum) years, so where is the celebration in that?

I agree that it's no reason to celebrate. But at the same time, we can't forget all the damage she did. A friend/acquaintance on Facebook said yesterday that she couldn't understand why people were protesting the death of an old woman. But the point is that the protests are about much more than that. They're about the white-washing and rewriting of history that the media and the current PM are undertaking. We absolutely must not forget the travesties of the Thatcher years or we'll be doomed to repeat them.

I learned of the death of one of my ex-partners, and suddenly his death became more important and more real to me.

((hugs))

I'm sorry for your loss Tracey.  

I grew up outside of Pittsburgh, which as a coal and steel area, was devastated by Reagan's policies. I knew Thatcher was cut from the same cloth, but had no idea of her true legacy till this past week.

Apologies for being too lazy to write my own post, but this.


Some articles about Thatcher that resonated with me:

http://www.ft.com/cms/s/2/536e095c-a23e-11e2-8971-00144feabdc0.html (Simon Schama's obit, in case that link goes bad)

http://www.guardian.co.uk/commentisfree/2013/apr/08/margaret-thatcher-death-etiquette

http://www.guardian.co.uk/politics/2013/apr/09/russell-brand-margaret-thatcher

Thank you for these links.  I enjoyed the piece by Russell Brand.  

While I don't get the all-out celebration over her death, I do understand the "Ding Dong" approach. Even I had that reaction.

I'm 47, and remember vividly her reign over the UK. I recall distinctly how my mother talked about "that woman" sending people on an "last vestiges of empire war" in the Falklands.

I also was quite into punk at the time, and songs like this influenced my understanding of British politics and Thatcher:

Exploited - Lets Start a War

When I moved here a few years ago, I was surprised to hear how reverently people spoke of the Falklands war and how the veterans were heroes on par with WWII veterans. It still throws me to hear it. In my eyes, it would be like saying the same about Vietnam and the war we waged there.

Lots of talk above about the Poll Tax above.

The Exploited - Don't pay the Poll Tax

I agree, something had to be done to help the country when she took power. But what she did, the cold and heartless way, no...that wasn't the way.

(and I hate to admit it, but I find it disturbing that both Thatcher and Reagan had dementia....)

"But the point is that the protests are about much more than that. They're about the white-washing and rewriting of history that the media and the current PM are undertaking. We absolutely must not forget the travesties of the Thatcher years or we'll be doomed to repeat them." - Chary.

And that, my friends, is a very, very, very important observation. That is the crux of the entire debate, right there.

We must not allow history to be rewritten by her fans.
Nor should people be shushed by people who think it is rude to speak ill of the dead, when 'the dead' was a political leader who did a lot of things that were highly unpopular.

There are people who are still alive who have family members that dies in the minors riots. Three totally innocent, completely uninvolved people DIED in those riots. Do people think that canonising Thatcher does not have an effect on the surviving relatives of the innocent people killed in those riots?

And, believe me, her policies were directly responsible for a number of other deaths too. People starved to death. Froze to death. Died of broken hearts. Were blown up on ships. Young black men were unsafe on their own mopeds under her rule.

People died.

She was buddy-buddy with Pinochet. Check out HIS political legacy. They were besties! He was disgusting. He was even more of a monster than she was.

She called Nelson Mandela a terrorist and she called Pinochet a great leader.

Repeatedly.

She hated gay people. She hated feminists. She hated single mothers. She hated union members.

She did a lot of Hating, and you reap what you sow.

I'm sure if people stopped saying she was fantastic, over and over, all over the media, other people would feel less of a need to point out that in their lives she was a lot less than a fantastic influence.

This country has never recovered from Thatcherism, and I personally suspect it NEVER will, but I hope I am very wrong.

TykeMan, your dad sounds like he was an awesome guy. xoxoxoxox

When did Russell Brand come out as Brilliant? Seriously? I'm so pleased he has stopped 'playing dumb' and started writing. I'm shocked by his talent and insight. Who knew?! Not me.

Now, if only someone can get him to take a shower, and put on some descent clothes... I'd maybe even vote for him one day! 

I read this article this morning - very good perspective on her rule.

http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news/john-prescott-margaret-thatcher-deserves-1829090

They're about the white-washing and rewriting of history that the media and the current PM are undertaking.

It's stomach-churning.
And that 'ceremonial funeral'. 

And that 'ceremonial funeral'. 

This is what gets me.  The country is in such a bad way that we "need" a projected seven years minimum of austerity, with cuts to benefits for the disabled and unemployed, more and more children being pushed into poverty, wages stagnating, and yet somehow there's enough money to pay for pomp and grandstanding for the person who began the end of the welfare state?  It is the worst kind of hypocrisy.

Um, in this country there is ALWAYS 'enough money to pay for pomp and grandstanding'.

And there always was, and there always will be.

That is just the way it is here.

Tis the UK way.

http://independentscot.info/remember-thatchers-victims/

This is what gets me.  The country is in such a bad way that we "need" a projected seven years minimum of austerity, with cuts to benefits for the disabled and unemployed, more and more children being pushed into poverty, wages stagnating, and yet somehow there's enough money to pay for pomp and grandstanding for the person who began the end of the welfare state?  It is the worst kind of hypocrisy.

What really annoys me with this funeral is the precedent. There hasn't been a funeral for a Prime Minster anywhere near this since Churchill.
I said to DW, that i guess in the US they won't understand why the furore over a ceromonial funeral because in the US a President gets a State funeral (as they are the head of state), but that isn't the case over here.