UK Husband Hates the South

sonofasailor.....I think you are getting a little carried away again. You are looking for reasons to be upset.

Becca, you are correct that S.F is an extremely expensive place to live.  I've moved there with less than a grand in my pocket and had all my clothes stolen from my VW bus the night I arrived.  Still, I found a job and a place to live and had some of the best years of my life. 


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sonofasailor.....I think you are getting a little carried away again. You are looking for reasons to be upset.

Perhaps....I just worked at McDonalds once....this guy across the counter is having a conversation with his son...about getting a job apparently. He says to him, "Well have you applied here Joshua? They'll hire anybody." And he's sort of pointing at me with his thumb over his shoulder.

Son of sailor, no anger here, it's just a discussion. 

I use McDonald's as an example of a job that's so crap that it's easy to get because it is.  It's a horrible exploitive place where people are not paid enough and abused with unfair working hours.  Male or female, it sucks but if you need a job you can get one fast there.

For the rest of food service, I said nothing negative.  Waiting tables is a job I couldn't do that pays well.  I've known cooks and pastry chefs who do things I can't and I respect ed them immensely.

I don't hold anybody in disdain.  I worked my way through school by carrying bags in a hotel and have done plenty of low status jobs. 

I did take a bit of an unfair kick at this guy because I said he didn't want to get a job when I really don't know him, but the person asked for advice.

I was actually serious about working at McDonald's if necessary and I've gone back to be a bell man when I needed to earn some money in a hurry.    If you thought I actually couldn't be serious, maybe you are the one who lacks respect for the low paid workers of the world.   I doubt that though because you seem just as lefty as I am.


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plenty of low status jobs. 

I just don't view cooking or carrying a bag as "low status". The "job" of cooking, next to providing clean water and breathable air, is of greatest importance. We will die pretty quickly without safe food.

It is again telling that we always use it and other house-keeping types of activities in a negative way. How can something as elemental as safe food preparation be devalued so much?  Why is it that the caring industry, the thing that keeps so many people from dying, is looked down upon? 

These jobs aren't penances you go through on your way to something better, or things people who can find nothing else to do accept. They are valuable and needed.

But more to the point....by devaluing these activities we reinforce the notion that these jobs are unimportant, things we suffer through to get to something better, things reserved for those we judge as being less than ourselves. And by doing so we justify the poor pay and bad working conditions.

Whether you like it or not.....all jobs are not created equal. Not all jobs get the same respect....or pay.....etc etc....and I don't see the problem with that. However... giving all people a bit of common respect is important....and you won't see me insult someone who works at McD's or anywhere else. But......McD's is a job that is on the lower end of employment.....do you know anybody who went to college, or gets extra super-duper training with the goal of working behind the counter at McD's? Why is that? Yes, it isn't always fair.....why on earth do the CEO's at some companies get the stupid amounts of money that they do? Because someone is silly enough to give the money to them. Why do we pay some athletes millions of dollars a year to play a game......and athletes from "not popular" sports get nothing? Is it all fair? Nope. But......right now if I HAD to get a job for a short period of time to make ends meet (possibly like the OP has indicated)......or to get your foot in the door, there are some options out there. If you are only going to take a job if it pays $100K+...... you better have a skill that someone really really wants (or thinks they want). I still tell people who don't know what they want to do to get into something like plumbing.......there are always jobs for plumbers. Danged if people can live without plumbers.....but I can live without McD's.

I still tell people who don't know what they want to do to get into something like plumbing.......there are always jobs for plumbers.

Listen in Florida and the SE in general, I say Air Con/refrigeration. They show up with these meters and gizmos....you don't know what they are doing with those things....just get the cold air blowing again.

I held off making any judgements about Kathryn's husband because I've never met him, and have no way of knowing the full circumstances. I do know an awful lot about NW Florida's culture so I chose to comment on that part of her post.

Whoa!  What part of my post did I address anything about SE culture other than to sympathise?

I'm from Georgia.  When we were dating DH would say that he'd be willing to move there.  Now he entertains no such illusions.  The South of the US baffles, confuses and angers him immensely which he manages to hold back for roughly 3 days when he visits there.  Please don't underestimate how shocking parts of the SE can be.

It sounds as those the OP's husband is having a very difficult time with the SE.  While I'm not from Florida, the specific issues mentioned including OP's family's bible-belt, Republican ways and the topic of population are conversations and ideas which wouldn't go down with my Georgia based family either.  I know from numerous visits that my British DH struggles with reconciling what we believe and practice with seeing my roots.  Therefore I sympathised with OP's husband at the extreme culture shock he may be experiencing.  I made no judgements at all about the topics discussed because that's not the point, simply about culture shock.

As far as not making judgements because you've never met him and don't know the full circumstances, fine.  I know what the OP said and addressed that as her feelings in this situation are important.  UKY is a been there, done that, maybe try this, type of forum.  As OP's post included frustrations about her husband's current situation, I commented, even though, you're right, we don't know the entire story.  It's impossible to know it in any situation unless we're in both people's heads, but we all still comment and give advice...as the OP specifically requested at the end of her post.

My husband (UKC) and I (USC) just moved back to the US after living for three years in the UK.  I absolutely love living in the UK and I never wanted to leave.  The main reason why we left is because my husband has been habitually unemployed and we thought he would have a better chance at work in the US.

UK husband was well-aware that he would be living with my family and have to subscribe to the "Bible-belt, republican" ways of the South (at least my area of the South...I don't want to generalise here).  He agreed to this and was the main one who wanted to leave the UK. I told him he doesn't have to agree with what people say, but he just can't be combative with his views (an apparently impossible task for him)

...I am becoming increasingly annoyed by his flippant attitude and lack of motivation when I have already rearranged EVERYTHING in my life and ours to make this happen for him.

Sonofasailor, I commented, and put a lot of thought into my comments as this, both the SE of the US, and coping with culture shock after moving are very close to my heart.  What part of what I said about the SE caused you to comment about bootstraps?

Maybe we should all just save it for the next person.  I don't think OP is even reading this any more!


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Supporting himself meant he got off his ars*

I may have misread this. It seems to me you are suggesting that, following your example, she should make him get off his lazy ass.

Look, it's a knee jerk reaction of mine. If somebody calls somebody lazy, or like when the couple on here keep getting bashed for trying to game the system....I at least put up a token complaint.

I don't like struggling people being bashed. If I come around a corner and three big guys are beating up a little guy, I'll yell "STOP". Maybe I find out he just knocked over an old lady and took her purse......then I might give him a kick or two myself.....but off-the-bat, my urge is to yell "STOP". 

When the guy in question is an immigrant, I yell "STOP" louder, because I am an immigrant, and he is my brother.

I may have misread this. It seems to me you are suggesting that, following your example, she should make him get off his lazy ass.

Actually...that is what I think he should do as well. In MY opinion......he needs to get his act in gear and either get a job (any job....without discrimination) or......hell.....who knows. This is something for them to decide, which we can't do.

sonofasailor- you tend to read the worst possible view into what people write. jimbocz hadn't said that McD's was a horrible place.....yet you took it that way. Why? Why read the worst possible outcome into these comments? Why not give them the benefit of the doubt?....maybe even ask a question to clarify what you are thinking before dooming them. I read the comment from jimbocz as "come on....get a job....any job and we'll figure things out later". You read it as an insult to McD's type of workers. I don't get it.......When people were "picking on" that couple from Brighton.....in your view we were picking on them......not in reality what we were doing....which is stating an objection to them trying to get around the rules.

I may have misread this. It seems to me you are suggesting that, following your example, she should make him get off his lazy ass.

I have no recommendations.  We struggled and DH had a job when I moved here but it was dead-end and low-paying.  It eventually lead to so many problems that we lived apart while we worked it out.  Having me there made him too lazy and things too easy.  Supporting himself meant he got off his ars*, looked for something else that met our financial and location needs.

I didn't spell out my entire situation because it's not completely relevant to the thread.  In long, my husband was working a very low paying, dead-end job while I commuted 3.5 - 4 hours total per day for well over 3 years.  Money was a huge problem and my commute was tiring.  I was unhappy, we were unhappy, and it got to the point where I cried daily, regularly threw things, started drinking quite a lot, stayed over with friends when I could.  We went to counselling and then when he refused to go more, I went alone.  I asked my husband to make a decision, assist us, assist me by making decisions (stay at his job, I find a lower paying job with a shorter commute or change jobs to get to where we want to live) because I couldn't do the commute and coming home to a shoebox I hated and didn't have the money for any longer.  He didn't decide which in my mind meant he made a decision, and I submitted the termination for our tenancy agreement.  Husband asked what he was supposed to do and I shrugged.  I'd finished that fight.  My salary with only supporting myself gave me freedom and I cut my commute to a do-able distance and ended up changing jobs to a higher paying job.  At nearly the point of divorce husband found another job, started listening to me, making decisions rather than shrugging, and after some time living apart and not even speaking we started dating again and eventually moved in together again.

I don't know if that's the path OP is going down.  She posted that she was increasingly annoyed by his flippant attitude when she's rearranged everything for him.  It sounds just a bit too familiar to me.  So yes, at some point, if any of this applies to her, her husband needs to start making decisions which benefit the couple and the relationship, something it sounds like he isn't currently doing.

My husband is far from lazy, but he needed to get off his ars*.  My husband froze and the status quo became just that.  I'm not picking on OP's husband.  I'm not bashing him.  OP's husband may be struggling, and that's fine, we've all been there.  But not doing anything to fix it or digging in by creating problems around the Thanksgiving dinner table, that's a problem.

3-4hrs commute.....nope.....I couldn't handle it. 30 min each way was my max.

sonofasailor- you tend to read the worst possible view into what people write. jimbocz hadn't said that McD's was a horrible place.....yet you took it that way. Why? Why read the worst possible outcome into these comments? Why not give them the benefit of the doubt?....maybe even ask a question to clarify what you are thinking before dooming them. I read the comment from jimbocz as "come on....get a job....any job and we'll figure things out later". You read it as an insult to McD's type of workers. I don't get it.......When people were "picking on" that couple from Brighton.....in your view we were picking on them......not in reality what we were doing....which is stating an objection to them trying to get around the rules.

Mr. Fred, I love the way you write. It always makes me stop and think. There's an openness to it.

Perhaps, upon thinking about it, I just get sort of wrankled with people who sort of promote themselves. For instance, Jimbo's recounting of his time in SF. The way I was brought up, we would have told that differently. It would have been more like:

"Hardship? Hell, I moved to San Francisco in an old VW bus...seven dollars and 42 cents in my pocket. Got there and some a-hole stole all my clothes...not that they amounted to more than a bunch of tshirts and some ratty-assed jeans. I was lucky that I was wearing my coat or I would have been up shitt creek. I was fortunate that this guy who ran a hotel down by the wharf gave me a job toting people's bags, and I could cage a meal every now and then from the old cook. Damnear froze."

Or with Larissa:

"Well you know, marriage....it's tough. We had a hard time financially there for a while....I was commuting way out to Southbend from Elglin Pass. Took hours. It ended up pretty bad....but you know Jeffrey moved up a position and we were able to move a little closer and it got better. But good lord we still bicker over some stuff....but were fumbling along I guess."

So It may just be my upbringing or something. Self-depreciation was very important. It may have something to do with my religion; I am chief among sinners....a wretch really. I may do good things, perhaps more good than bad (though that is debatable), but like any human being I am capable, under certain circumstances, of terrible things. And even when I do get fleeting feelings that I have accomplished something good, I must remember that in addition to any noble characteristics on my part, my successes are due, at least partially to conditions I did not create.

But another thing, I feel like we all need to be more careful about small slights. Like with racism.....it's not really the Klan roaming about burning crosses that is the problem. They are just nuts and idiots. The true evil of racism lies in the accumulation of very small slights....the minute perceptions that make a black applicant "the other" during the interview process....the giggle at a name that is perceived to be different.

And with the poor....the subtle slights of, "There's always McDonalds"....or "Well if he were trying harder...."

And like sublime racism, or sexism or ageism, the added evil is that if you react....if you call someone out for it, they can say...."Oh you're over-reacting!" or, "I was only joking!"

Again, this guy may be a lazy slob....I just don't personally feel that I can judge him like that. Or any struggling person.

I have a great darkness in my heart....and a great judgemental scorn....but I reserve it for those who hold wealth and power, and instead of using it for the betterment of mankind...use it to further seek riches and power at the expense of their fellow human being. I judge these people....they know better.