Should foreigner ask about benefits?

Hmm, I think there will be a few of us on that plain [sic].   

 

Regarding information gathering: personally, I'm a facts kind of girl.  In particular, I'm interested in comparing the politics and social issues of healthcare in the US vis a vis the UK.  I'm curious about stuff, like say, since there is public transport here to a greater degree, is that worked into NHS benefits where it is deemed reasonable?  I'm not interested in pocketing the information away for future use necessarily.  But that's not really the point.  What if I *were* to be poor and considering a pregnancy that would be expensive?  That brings me, er, to the point I posted in the wrong place *cough*.

To quote myself, whether people agree with it or not, the existence of socialized healthcare removes a lot of the justification for argument.  A person might resent me for getting pregnant again.  Another might resent a person for smoking.  Another might resent a person for not aborting a seriously disabled child.  But what really is the point, aside from exercising your right to make others feel guilt?  There is no reason for a values discussion ever, really.  It's not like the government is going to start picking and choosing who gets their healthcare paid for anytime soon.  Because of unfortunate events in my first pregnancy, to balance the playing field of reproductive rights, I need costly procedures.  I fail to see how this is fundamentally different from the person who wants a heart transplant in order to exercise his right to live as long as possible.  This is one reason why I think progressive ideas like socialized healthcare are a good thing; people become defined less by their cost and more by their needs.  At least that's the idea.  Apparently there still exists a lot of 'american-style' sentiment that a society has more to do with who benefits society and who burdens it and less to do with a society with aggregate needs that need to be taken care of.

So, should foreigners ask about benefits?  It depends on who you ask, and what they're going to assume it implies about you and your choices.

  A person might resent me for getting pregnant again.  Another might resent a person for smoking.  Another might resent a person for not aborting a seriously disabled child.  But what really is the point, aside from exercising your right to make others feel guilt?  There is no reason for a values discussion ever, really.  It's not like the government is going to start picking and choosing who gets their healthcare paid for anytime soon.  Because of unfortunate events in my first pregnancy, to balance the playing field of reproductive rights, I need costly procedures.  I fail to see how this is fundamentally different from the person who wants a heart transplant in order to exercise his right to live as long as possible. 

It's not and I'm sorry you have been made to feel like you have to explain yourself. Some countries have a 'good health' requirement for their immigrants (the US is one of them) but the UK does not and the NHS is there for everyone, so ask away!

Oh, heaven forbid that a foriegner should ask a question about benefits!  OMG, you're right!  We've all come to this great land with one thing on our minds.  Getting the most we can out of the British Government.  Never mind that foriengners pay taxes too.     Thanks for setting me straight, JacChic. 

You'll have to explain the significance of your spelling errors, Mindy.  I'm having a sense of humor failure tonight.

You couldn't do the decent thing and fix it in the title of this thread, since I am apparently the OP and I have a thing about spelling errors?  FWIW, I think personally, when breaking up threads, it would be proper for the moderator to introduce the new thread.

Oh, come on.  Since when are people's personal circumstances 'open to debate'.  She was simply asking for information.  Not asking people to comment on her personal hypothetical choices.  There's a difference here.

IMO, if you don't want people to discuss your personal circumstances, don't post them on a public forum.  With a place as diverse as this, you can't expect everyone to agree.  Let's face it, a lot of us have only one thing in common, the fact that we're Americans living in the UK. 

unfortunately, some of us have met americans who expatriate here w/that exact purpose in mind.     what is ironic, and this was a personal experience i had and by no means indicative of all expats, was that the person would not have dreamed of asking for benefits in america.  that's sad, b/c as expats we - whether we like it or not - are representatives for our country.  and when persons conduct themselves in such  way, it can make us look like a bunch of freeloading moochers.  we are all here at this nation's hospitality.  some keep that more in mind more than others. 

Here, here!  I don't begrudge anyone NHS services.  I use them, just as everyone else does.  It just rubs me wrong when people expect things from government services that are beyond the scope of that service.  It's like someone claiming Child Benefit who isn't entitled to it.  Just because a service is there, doesn't mean you should ethically use it.

Anyone who is settled here permanently is entitled to NHS treatment - it's not a state benefit for the poor or underprivleged or those who have paid a minimum of 200 years worth of national insurance contributions, it's a universal healthcare system therefore why shouldn't a newcomer to the UK ask what exactly the NHS provides?

It's not and I'm sorry you have been made to feel like you have to explain yourself. Some countries have a 'good health' requirement for their immigrants (the US is one of them) but the UK does not and the NHS is there for everyone, so ask away!

Ah, figured out the quote thing.

Hehe, we were originally intending to stay in the US, and poor husband had all the pokes and prodding done, only for plans to change soon thereafter.  After all that, I was very surprised when nothing was required of the kids and me.  My GP even offered to phone up my doctor in the States for my records if I didn't have them.  I was floored when I found out that, shock, they allow gay couples to come over as well.  I appreciate that the UK respects the wishes of its citizens to marry the person of their choice and to extend all the priveleges to the foreigner that would have been automatic to a UK-born spouse.  I don't know how others see it, but it was degrading for my husband to be treated like a piece of produce that might have a contagion that would infect all our crops.  Problem is, people are so scared they won't be let in that they never think to cry foul.  I'll stop before this turns into a *real* rant .

Off topic posts -- those better suited for PMs -- have been removed.  Please keep it on topic.  Thanks

Anyone who is settled here permanently is entitled to NHS treatment - it's not a state benefit for the poor or underprivleged or those who have paid a minimum of 200 years worth of national insurance contributions, it's a universal healthcare system therefore why shouldn't a newcomer to the UK ask what exactly the NHS provides?

Would you expect a universal healthcare system to pay for transportation and child care?  I wouldn't.


(Thanks Caitlinn...)

Here, here!  I don't begrudge anyone NHS services.  I use them, just as everyone else does.  It just rubs me wrong when people expect things from government services that are beyond the scope of that service.  It's like someone claiming Child Benefit who isn't entitled to it.  Just because a service is there, doesn't mean you should ethically use it.

What's interesting is that generally the poor end up losing out on many benefits they are entitled to, simply because they don't have access to information.  I remember in Idaho the constant campaigns to get the word out about CHIP (children's health insurance program).  If there were a book that listed all possible benefits, I think most people would read it.  Further to that, I would hope that they can tick the little boxes of what they are entitled to without feeling guilt because, well, they're entitled and that's what benefits are for.  I have real sympathy for the 'lower class' and foreigners who come with little education or a strikingly different culture and their plight in trying to figure the system out.  I certainly hope they wouldn't be made to feel discouraged by the attitudes they encounter.  This country does have enough of a conservative element to make me fairly certain this is not the case, however.

Again, ethics have little to do with it.  If the majority of the people don't like that a certain benefit is available, then take it away by all means.  The use of said benefits should be above moral judgments.

Sorry, what's a PM?

Private Message.   

Off topic posts -- those better suited for PMs -- have been removed.  Please keep it on topic.  Thanks

Got the message loud and clear!

Private Message.   

I see..This is hard though!  I started using communities on BBCi, where topic drift is an art form.  Speaking of which, *run*