EU Permanent Residence prior to five years

So. I found this regarding permanent residence for EU citizens:

If you’ve lived continuously in the UK for 3 years or more, you get permanent residence when you:

    - reach State Pension age - you must have been self-employed or worked continuously in the UK for 1 year beforehand
    - retire early - you must have worked continuously in the UK for 1 year beforehand
    - start work or self-employment in another EEA country or Switzerland - you must usually return to your UK home once a week, and have worked or been self-employed in the UK continuously for 3 years or more beforehand

So, if I work for at least a year, at the end of three years I could retire and then qualify for "permanent residence"? Would that apply to dependents?

So, if I work for at least a year, at the end of three years I could retire and then qualify for "permanent residence"? Would that apply to dependents?

If there wasn't Brexit and if you meet the requirements, then you could get the EU's "PR". Their dependents don't get PR too. For their PR, adult non-EEA citizen dependants must remain dependant on their EEA citizen sponsor  at all times for 5  years and their sponsor must be an EU "qualified person" at all times or have PR.

Oh well. Just a thought. Wouldn't help the Daughter then. And, technically, I don't need it for myself and I make more (net) from US Social Security than I would at most jobs I can get here now. (If I took a job, the Social Security pay stops until I turn 66.) And Brexit changes all, anyway. She knew it was going to be 5 years when we started this, she's just chafing a bit. She needs to earn money to help fund her PhD studies and it's hard for her to not be able to apply for full time work of short duration to do so. She's just going to need to do part-time year-round, which is more difficult when studying.

Oh well. Just a thought. Wouldn't help the Daughter then. And, technically, I don't need it for myself and I make more from US Social Security than I would at most jobs I can get here now. (If I took a job, the Social Security pay stops until I turn 66.) And Brexit changes all, anyway. She knew it was going to be 5 years when we started this, she's just chafing a bit. She needs to earn money to help fund her PhD studies and it's hard for her to not be able to apply for full time work of short duration to do so. She's just going to need to do part-time year-round, which is more difficult when studying.

Nan, I know she's here as your dependant, is she permitted to earn anything and still qualify?

https://www.gov.uk/apply-for-a-uk-residence-card/permanent-residence-card

You can get permanent residence before 5 years if either:

   - you were living with your EEA national family member, who was working or self-employed in the UK, immediately before their death
   - your EEA national family member was working or self-employed in the UK but has ‘ceased activity’ (stopped work or self-employment because of retirement or permanent incapacity, or because they’re now working or self-employed in another EEA state but are still resident and return to the UK at least once a week)


Actually, had it not been for Brexit, she COULD have applied after 3 years as a direct family member if I work for a year and then cease employment. But Brexit kinda kills that. If we'd arrived a year earlier we could have done it - but who'da thunk Brexit would have been enacted at all, and so early when it was??

Yes, she can work. There's not a set pound limit on what she can earn, but my contribution to her upkeep must be enough that on what she earned she could not support herself otherwise. [Oh, the grammar police are going to get me for THAT sentence.] And she does have to live in our home - which was the plan all along while she is in school.  She has had an opportunity to apply for a couple of full-time jobs of very short duration, during her non-school term time, which would have been a huge help in funding the studies (and would have meant she would not have had to work during term time, which is preferable). However, we've not been able to get confirmation that this would not cause her to be disqualified as a dependent for those months of work. So, while technically and legally she has the right to full employment via her residency card, we are concerned that her earning a decent wage full-time would throw her out of status. It's too bad, because this kind of job in her field would really be a boost to her when she finishes her degree - coming out with the degree AND a CV with work experience in the field is always better.

Yes, she can work. There's not a set pound limit on what she can earn, but my contribution to her upkeep must be enough that on what she earned she could not support herself otherwise. [Oh, the grammar police are going to get me for THAT sentence.] And she does have to live in our home - which was the plan all along while she is in school.  She has had an opportunity to apply for a couple of full-time jobs of very short duration, during her non-school term time, which would have been a huge help in funding the studies (and would have meant she would not have had to work during term time, which is preferable). However, we've not been able to get confirmation that this would not cause her to be disqualified as a dependent for those months of work. So, while technically and legally she has the right to full employment via her residency card, we are concerned that her earning a decent wage full-time would throw her out of status. It's too bad, because this kind of job in her field would really be a boost to her when she finishes her degree - coming out with the degree AND a CV with work experience in the field is always better.

Yeah, that's what I was wondering. Glad it's ok. Thanks for clarifying. 

Yeah, that bit I checked and re-checked. 

Sorry. That must have been another European Court of Justice Ruling, and I missed it.

But Brexit kinda kills that. If we'd arrived a year earlier we could have done it - but who'da thunk Brexit would have been enacted at all,

It had been in the news for years. Things like: the UK PM going to the EU to ask to limit the numbers using "free movement" by just allowing an equal amount of workers in each others countries; the Swiss then voting to end "free movement to their county as they couldn't cope with  all these numbers either; the rise over the years of anti immigration parties in the EEA countries affected by "free movement" with some getting into government; countries withdrawing their long standing applications to join the EU  etc  It was known in 2015 that the UK would have that vote.

Nan, I know she's here as your dependant, is she permitted to earn anything and still qualify?

If Nan's adult daughter had come to the UK one Tier 4 Student visa, then she would have been allowed to work without restriction out of term time.

EU rules are different and were not for non-EEA citizens to use, until the European Court of Justice said they could in a case failed asylum seekers took against the Republic of Ireland, but they don't get the same rights as EEA citizens using "free movement". Adult non-EEA citizens who rely on being a dependant of their EEA sponsor, must not only prove they are dependant on their sponsor to be allowed in an EEA country, but for them to be in that country lawfully in that country, they must remain dependant on them.

Even in the Brexit Withdrawal agreement, the EU is not bothered about the non-EEA citizens e.g. different rules on the criminal history of non-EEA citizens so they can be deported; nothing arranged for those using Singh or derived rights ECJ Rulings.

If Nan's adult daughter had come to the UK one Tier 4 Student visa, then she would have been a!Lowestoft work without restriction out of ten time.

I'll have a go at that one..  If Nan's adult daughter had come to the UK on a Tier 4 Student visa then she would have been allowed to work without restriction out of term time? 

I'll have a go at that one..  If Nan's adult daughter had come to the UK on a Tier 4 Student visa then she would have been allowed to work without restriction out of term time? 

That's my tablet changing what I typed and then loged me out.

That's my tablet changing what I typed and then loged me out.

Mind of it's own! 

Yep. To all. Except, really, nobody truly expected the Brexit referendum to pass. Certainly not Scotland and Northern Ireland, who voted against it.  And in the unlikely chance that it was revisited by a second referendum, I doubt it would pass now given what people are aware of that they were not before. But that's a moot point - there won't be a second one. Someone, somewhere, is making a financial killing on this and won't give that up plan easily.

If she'd been Tier 4, she'd have to leave when her studies were over - hence using this route. I wasn't about to move over here for however long it takes her to get through school only to have to move back to the States again.  As far as I'm concerned, this was a one-time, permanent move. Unless they throw us out.

At present, she can work, but has to live in my home and can't earn enough to live on her own, to remain dependent. After five years, all of that won't matter. So, another 44 months to go. The PhD would take up at least 36 months of that, at a minimum, if she can get the tuition funded. Which is ok. Otherwise she'll have to work part-time and save up what she can for it. If she waits until she's been in-country for three years (another 16 months) to start the program she would qualify as a "home" student and the tuition would drop from about $22,000 a year to about $5,500 (which I can handle). So that's probably what's going to happen if they don't fund her as a foreign student.

On the 3-year retire-get-out-of-jail-free-card route, I only found it by looking at the actual application form. But unless they are keeping that (doubtful), it's a moot point ala Brexit. Again, if we'd made the jump a year earlier, we'd be skidding in under the deadlines. But I wasn't ready to retire and she wasn't finished undergrad, so that's the way the dice landed. We're in a decent enough place with decent enough options. She is just chafing a bit, wanting to get on with life.

Sorry. That must have been another European Court of Justice Ruling, and I missed it.

It had been in the news for years. Things like: the UK PM going to the EU to ask to limit the numbers using "free movement" by just allowing an equal amount of workers in each others countries; the Swiss then voting to end "free movement to their county as they couldn't cope with  all these numbers either; the rise over the years of anti immigration parties in the EEA countries affected by "free movement" with some getting into government; countries withdrawing their long standing applications to join the EU  etc  It was known in 2015 that the UK would have that vote.

Got almost NO coverage in the US of A.    But the UK usually doesn't.

Well, finally some advice. If it's a Hard Brexit, it's five years. If something is agreed to, the proposal as it now stands keeps EU law in force for EU citizens until the end of 2020. And thus, we could do ILR after three years. The Daughter could then work.  We'd then have to exchange, possibly, the ILR documents for settlement documents prior to the end of 2020.

So, we'll just have to wait to see until October's discussions what is going to happen. My third year here would begin in May 2019, so if I was working before then, and if the stars align, we could do it. Maybe.