This Board Subsection seems to be my own private estate!

Even still, I'm regretting not having stuck it out to get the Daughter her EUSS paperwork. Apparently I can come back, no probs, on my Irish citizenship (as before), but she cannot come with me.  I can't find a loophole, since Brexit, to get her in with me. Other than one that involves the EU and that would take years. I'm not actually sure I'd have enough time left, given all things, to pull that one off.  Since we're the only family we both have, I guess we don't get to come back to the UK. Well.... crud.

Too bad she's not a nurse or something. 

Sorry to hear that the route back for your daughter is closed or at least lengthy. All the best.

There's still one spider-web thin option. She applied for Irish citizenship in 2018 and has not yet been turned down. But it's going on 7 years now, so we don't know what's going on. She was advanced to "level 2" in 2019, which meant she'd cleared the various basic vettings.  Twice a year she writes for an update. About half of the time she'll get a response saying her application is "at an advanced state" and that they'll be back in touch when a decision has been made. The other half of the time there is no reply.  So we don't know.

Even still, I'm regretting not having stuck it out to get the Daughter her EUSS paperwork. Apparently I can come back, no probs, on my Irish citizenship (as before),
 

Under present rules you can but it's a "Memorandum of Understanding", whatever that means. I found this on the the Irish government site, if it helps.
https://www.gov.ie/en/publication/439c2-brexit-common-travel-area-cta/

It was only ever an Agreement, which allowed Irish citizens to move from Ireland to the UK and was granted long before the Irish could move to other EEA countries under Free Movement; the Agreement was not as good as Free Movement to the UK for them. I read in the Irish papers that following Brexit, the Republic of Ireland government asked the UK government to put this Agreement into International law but that was refused.

Since we're the only family we both have, I guess we don't get to come back to the UK. Well.... crud.

If you have decided that you don't want to live in the US anymore, have you thought about another EEA country? The EU still haven't closed the failed asylum seeker court ruling, which then meant that EEA citizens could now bring a non-EEA citizen spouse under Free Movement. They could then also bring their and their non-EEA spouse's, dependent family members to any EEA country under Free Movement (except their own EEA country, unless home laws allowed it).  Have you checked to see if your adult daughter can be your dependent? I recall some would bring their non-EEA siblings and their families; cousins and their families etc but not all EEA countries allowed that.

Under present rules you can but it's a "Memorandum of Understanding", whatever that means. I found this on the the Irish government site, if it helps.
https://www.gov.ie/en/publication/439c2-brexit-common-travel-area-cta/

It was only ever an Agreement, which allowed Irish citizens to move from Ireland to the UK and was granted long before the Irish could move to other EEA countries under Free Movement; the Agreement was not as good as Free Movement to the UK for them. I read in the Irish papers that following Brexit, the Republic of Ireland government asked the UK government to put this Agreement into International law but that was refused.

If you have decided that you don't want to live in the US anymore, have you thought about another EEA country? The EU still haven't closed the failed asylum seeker court ruling, which then meant that EEA citizens could now bring a non-EEA citizen spouse under Free Movement. They could then also bring their and their non-EEA spouse's, dependent family members to any EEA country under Free Movement (except their own EEA country, unless home laws allowed it).  Have you checked to see if your adult daughter can be your dependent? I recall some would bring their non-EEA siblings and their families; cousins and their families etc but not all EEA countries allowed that.

In Ireland, no, she's not considered my dependent. We went through many hoops with them (and via an immigration lawyer in Dublin) and I've been through the Irish immigrations' website and policy docs with a fine toothed comb for several years, yes. It's because of her age. If she were much younger, it might be arguable.  But adult children have no place in their process, it seems. They are lumped in under "other family members" and not part of the nuclear family. And it's a tough row to hoe to get one of those approved, I'm told.

The remaining naturalization option we have applied for her under is "association" - close association with an Irish citizen. It's an option that the Minister of Justice can approve as he/she sees fit.  It has not been denied yet - but it has not been approved, either. They keep throwing roadblocks up. Last spring they sent an email saying they still had 4,000 applications from prior to 2023 to process and that she should have received a link to their new online website. And to respond if that link had not been received. She responded with a no receipt of the link email, got an automated response from them, and then it's been radio silence again.  She sent off another email to them yesterday.

We've looked at a few other countries, yes. Each EU country has it's own little quirks. Since neither of us is really fluent in a foreign language, it's a little difficult.  She's got some French, and we both have a very little Spanish. She needs to be able to speak the country's language well enough to hold a decent job, which means it's down to English.  One of the loopholes to get her into Ireland would be to live in another EU country with her for a period of time, with her as a member of my household, and once officially accepted as settled in that country we could then move to Ireland. After a period of time there she could apply for citizenship via one of the other routes. At that time we could take advantage of the CTA.  Unfortunately, all of that would take years.

So for now I'm concentrating on trying to jog her application loose.

It's because of her age. If she were much younger, it might be arguable.  But adult children have no place in their process, it seems. They are lumped in under "other family members" and not part of the nuclear family. And it's a tough row to hoe to get one of those approved, I'm told. (

Recently on another forum, Polish citizens were asking if they could use their elderly parents in the UK, to live in the UK themselves and bring their adult child with them. They were told they would need their own visas and their adult child would need his own visa too.

I assume your daughter has looked to see if she can get a UK work visa?

The remaining naturalization option we have applied for her under is "association" - close association with an Irish citizen. It's an option that the Minister of Justice can approve as he/she sees fit.  It has not been denied yet - but it has not been approved, either.

Let us know how you get on. Somebody I know is from Irish descent, but he didn't have Irish citizenship. He had to work in Ireland to then naturalise as an Irish Citizen. He had been hoping to pass Irish citizenship on to his adult children but was unable to do so. If anybody can find a way, you  can.

We've looked at a few other countries, yes. Each EU country has it's own little quirks. Germany seems like a logical place, but their issue with foreigners right now isn't ideal.

It's the same in every European country that was/is very popular with immigrants.

Since neither of us is really fluent in a foreign language, it's a little difficult.  She's got some French, and we both have a very little Spanish. She also has a degree in Japanese, but that kind of is pointless here.... 

Malta? They speak English. Before Brexit, many non-EEA immigrants who naturalised as British and who wanted to bring elderly non-EEA citizens to the UK, used Malta for the EU Surinder Singh route. The earlier ones used Ireland but the Irish took a long time to give them a permit. The UK had shut down the adult dependent visa to make it virtually impossible to get, to stop the burden on the NHS.

Most EEA countries speak English as it's the business language of the EU. What about Portugal? They have a large number of British (and German) communities who retired to that country and they will speak English. It's a good source of revenue for Portugal as these retirees spend their pensions there and Portugal doesn't pay for their healthcare (until they have/if they want Settlement).

One of the loopholes to get her into Ireland would be to live in another EU country with her for a period of time, with her as a member of my household, and once officially accepted as settled in that country we could then move to Ireland. After a period of time there she could apply for citizenship via one of the other routes. At that time we could take advantage of the CTA.  Unfortunately, all of that would take years.

And things can change in that time.

Perhaps also keep an look out for any new UK visas your daughter might be able to get?

Hi. Yep, we're exploring all routes and watching for options.  At present a work visa to the UK or Ireland is highly unlikely - she is not trained in one of those fields where her skills are in high demand.  She got her degree in the UK in a very specific field that pretty much only exists in that part of the world, and with only a masters' there's not much chance of her finding work in it. She'd need to go on for a PhD and even then the job market isn't huge. She also no longer has the connections there that she'd need. (Or, in the case of Ireland, never got to make.)

I'll look at Malta, thanks. That was not on my radar. Portugal is definitely on the map - it's one of the places we were considering when we left the UK.  It ironic - it would be easier if our situations were reversed. If she had citizenship and I did not, it'd be doable in Ireland. I have enough income to support myself and private health insurance. I'm by no means a rich woman, but basically, I'd be a taxable asset to a country with minimal financial liabilities to them. But that's not how it goes, so....

Hopefully the mid-term elections in a year-and-a-half will give us a more solid feel of which way this country truly is going. At present, that direction is extremely troubling, so if there's not a significant backlash at the elections, we'll know it's time to go. But we both still want to get her the citizenship regardless of internal politics here, as it would open up many more doors for her. I'm not sure we could realistically plan on living elsewhere without it.

In the meantime, It's finally gotten up to 5F, and the frost is starting to melt on the inside of my double-pane glass windows. (Which are obviously faulty.)
I'm amusing myself with a pot of tea and looking alternately through seed catalogs, watching the birds eating out at the feeder on the porch (they are so fluffed up against the snow and cold that they are round), and watching haggis videos. My brain is melting. 

https://haggiswildlifefoundation.com/our-story/

There is a loophole.     Not a very secure one, but in an absolute emergency situation it would work for a bit.  Still looking at more standard options.  Part of the equation is that although such a move would be fine (if not good) for me, it might not be such for the Daughter. Still, it's good to have options. 

Malta would be fine for me, but the climate would kill my Daughter. Looks like maybe the cooler part of Portugal, or perhaps Normandy. Assuming Ireland doesn't come through for us.

Total non sequitur, but the Nazis have missed this one

https://www.gutenberg.org/cache/epub/26184/pg26184-images.html


 

Hi. Yep, we're exploring all routes and watching for options.  At present a work visa to the UK or Ireland is highly unlikely - she is not trained in one of those fields where her skills are in high demand.  She got her degree in the UK in a very specific field that pretty much only exists in that part of the world, and with only a masters' there's not much chance of her finding work in it. She'd need to go on for a PhD and even then the job market isn't huge. She also no longer has the connections there that she'd need. (Or, in the case of Ireland, never got to make.)

Ok, and this is now totally bizarre.  Her field is now listed on the UK shortage occupations list (or whatever the document's formal name is at present).  We're not really seeing any jobs advertised, but it's on the list. So there's that.

[It wasn't on the list in prior years, and the Unis are churning out graduates in the field still, so... are they all foreign students who grab the degree and then leave?]

Ok, and this is now totally bizarre.  Her field is now listed on the UK shortage occupations list (or whatever the document's formal name is at present).  We're not really seeing any jobs advertised, but it's on the list. So there's that.

[It wasn't on the list in prior years, and the Unis are churning out graduates in the field still, so... are they all foreign students who grab the degree and then leave?]

Keeping everything crossed a job comes up! Would be great for you to be able to retire here.

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Keeping everything crossed a job comes up! Would be great for you to be able to retire here.

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+1

Keeping everything crossed a job comes up! Would be great for you to be able to retire here.

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It's a nice dream, though. 

The negatives:

1) The Daughter is not keen on going back to the UK due to the xenophobic and discriminatory treatment she encountered. And because she feels she was ripped off badly by the University she attended. (I have to agree, it was a massive "bait-and-switch", possibly done in the name of pulling in the high foreign tuition and fees she paid. In the best light it would show a large amount of incompetence on the part of the Uni. I'm leaning towards the latter - there's a lot of that there.)  Then there's the whole world of the treatment of the disabled in the UK, which is a bag of worms in the best light. I do have some concerns that, as economic conditions worsen there (presumably they will), the backlash against "foreigners" could ramp up. There's only so long we could pretend to be Canadian without having to deal with it.  The Daughter is ill-equipped for that.

2) The UK is an Island rapidly becoming more isolated with a teetering economy. (Much as the US's previously robust economy is about to do.)  If the Daughter were to find work and we moved over there, and funding for her job was eliminated, we'd be in a world of hurt. I could easily support us both, but the immigration laws would want to deport her within sixty days. If we could manage to stay, if she'd not been working for years she'd be in a really dire situation if anything happened to me. Also, I see the potential for the cost of/availability of groceries becoming difficult.  We could supplement our groceries by having a serious Victory garden, but only if we had access to land - which appears to not be common unless you are wealthy or a family on the allotment waiting list dies out completely and your name finally comes up on it.

3) I'm not sure how long the USA is going to allow dual citizenship. I may have to decide on one or the other - which would impact my ability to live there. If the Daughter does not also have dual citizenship, it's a no-go option in that scenario. I can probably get her into Ireland on a "Stamp 4" long-term visa, but how long she'd be able to stay is questionable at present. Her ability to work professionally would be a total crapshoot.

4) Given what's happening with the coup in DC right now, I have no idea if I would continue to have access to my retirement funds if I was overseas. Musk could slap restrictions on moving money overseas - with exceptions for people like himself, that is.  I also don't know if they would begin to restrict the payment of Social Security to overseas recipients. A government that would cut food and medical aid to literally millions of people knowing they would starve to death is not going to give a damn about overseas citizens receiving their social security. For all I know, it could end up being forfeited into a Musk account somewhere, or have a special tax slapped on it. (Same thing.) Although the budget in California is in dire shape, the pension scheme is well funded and should be able to weather this all for a number of years. If things continue longer than that, ....?  All my income is from the USA.  The Daughter would have to support us in that scenario and so she'd have to be able to work at something other than as a shop-girl.

5) There are some unsettling things about the justice system in the UK. Anyone can list your address as theirs and if they owe a debt, the bailiffs can come to your place and take all of your stuff in payment even if you tell them you are not that person and don't know them. So you have to have a lot of money for lawyers. Utilities seem to be able to enter your home without your permission and change your utility meters, etc.   While horrific abuses of justice (Guildord Four, the Post Office Scandal, and possibly that nurse who seems to have taken the fall for bad doctors who caused a lot of infant deaths by exceptionally poor medical care, etc.) seem to occur with disturbing regularity, overall the system seems to work, if not always correctly, at least much faster than it does here. Where there are truly ghastly cases of injustice that drag on for decades here, the system seems more efficient there. I'm on the fence as to believing if that's because it actually works better or because they are railroading innocent people to keep things moving along. There is no death penalty there, which is a moral plus, but the rate at which rapes and other violent crimes are actually solved seems pretty low. At the end of the day, I would have a disturbing sense of unease about getting caught up on the wrong end of the legal system through no fault of my own without having sufficient resources to pay my way out of it. (At least in the USA I have legal insurance that would help pay for a lawyer. The same kind of policing incompetence/malfeasance happens here, rather obviously, but it's the Devil I know.)

6) The Daughter no longer has any friends there, really. Most were overseas students and they've all gone home. She'd have to "start all over" with making friends. (Sounds like a small thing to consider, but it's really not in the grand scheme.)  I make friends or I don't.  I prefer the former, but I'm not really seriously impacted by the latter.  She's a lot more of a social animal than I am - it's really important to her.

7) Finding housing that is suitable could be difficult.

Also,  If Musk and his ilk pull this off, the UK could well fold if challenged on any point by the new regime. I would hope that would not be the case - see WW2 as an example - but economically what would the UK be able to do? Basically, if it's not already happening there, you'll end up getting the same treatment unless you folks, as the saying goes in Texas, "head 'em off at the pass!" Please be aware that what is happening here is not going to stay here. Greed knows no limits.


In favor:

1) I really like Scotland and the people we met there socially. (Of course, a lot of them were EU and they went home before we did.)

2) In a pinch, if things were to get really bad a far as income went, both of us would have the NHS as a fallback in Scotland, whereas in England we would not have access to it.  While the care systems for the disabled and elderly appears to be in shambles, at least there's a serious attempt to take care of people with needs.  That the State can't afford it is not an insignificant consideration, but a people that actually considers those things essential services is a major plus. My future medical needs are not going to be miniscule. Even if I had to pay cash for care there, it's doable. If Medicare here is gutted... I'd die even if there were many ways to help me become healthy again, because I could not afford them.

3) I, presumably, could afford to keep us fed and housed decently there if we did not move to one of the high-cost-of-living areas. It's also a lot safer (with the usual caveats) to just walk around there, so a car is not necessarily a necessity. They are cheaper there anyway.

4) The climate is pretty much, except for very rare occasions, a lot safer for the Daughter and more pleasant to me as well. 

5) With dual Irish citizenship, we'd have the right to vote and become active members of society there. (Without it, we'd have no input.) The system, as rickety as it appears, seems way more fair with proportional representation.

6)  I was the happiest I've ever been in my life for the first year we were there (before it became apparent that the Uni had done what they did). It was so much quieter, lower stress, easier to breathe the cleaner air....


Bottom line, as for most places, it'd be a lot better if I was rich.  I just want the Daughter to be safe and happy, with a secure future, no matter where we live.  I am keeping as many options open as I possibly can, because things are changing so rapidly that scenarios I would not have dreamed of in a nightmare ten years ago are looming on the horizon here.  There's that old saying about "when life gives you lemons, make lemonade", but when they steal the lemons, too....  We'll see. I'm kind of a believer in "if its meant to happen, it'll happen."

Alternate bottom line:  We may have no other choice, at some point. Or it could end up as an "out of the frying pan, into the fire" scenario.  In any event, it's not something to be rushed into or taken lightly.

They are going after the FDIC.

Ok, so I never in my wildest dreams saw this coming when I closed my RBS account recently. I need an overseas bank. Wise holds funds in US banks.