Hello
Guest

Sponsored Links


Topic: Why do *you* hate Starbucks?  (Read 37050 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

  • *
  • *
  • Posts: 2985

  • An eagle swooped down from a semi-trailer
  • Liked: 0
  • Joined: Sep 2002
Re: Why do *you* hate Starbucks?
« Reply #105 on: August 08, 2008, 03:03:32 PM »
Thanks for those links. Most of them dealt with stuff that was over 10 years old. Even Greenpeace acknowledged that McDonald's did work with them despite the McLibel issue. Also the T&G one acknowledged that this issue there was with the loophole in the government law, not McDonald's alone. What we see is that McDonald's name recognition is used to highlight issues, so in effect McDonald's global domination actually helps these causes because it helps them grab headlines and speak in a shorthand that is readily understood. Whether McDonald's is the main or worst culprit in the cases being highlighted is beside the point. It is their brand recognition that gets the interest.

For the record, I LOVE McDonald's fries, and I love the Filet O' Fish, and as for the milkshakes...wow!  But I don't hold with "If you like it, eat it if you don't, don't".  I hold with "I'm not going to give money to bastards".

Yes but to really follow this logic, you wouldn't eat anywhere. Is Burger King any better than McDonald's? Maybe on some things but on others maybe not. Is the local chippy better with employment practices? Probably not. Depending on where you live by shopping local you could be supporting your local mafia (this is probably more relevant to Belfast but don't kid yourself that tentacles of crime aren't invested everywhere). If a restaurant serves Coca Cola do you boycott them?

Ultimately it is up to each individual to decide what is the line they want to draw. But like the clamor against Primark a lot of the targets of trendy boycotts seem to me to be the shops and services used by the working class. So there's this pat-yourself-on-the-back snobbishness underlying what is supposed to be progressive politics that specifically seeks to better the lives of working class people, and does so by looking down their noses at their lifestyles and attacking them. I think that is *bleep*ed up and that is something I refuse to support. That's where my line is.

So I will take the kids to McDonald's, I will indulge in Starbucks, I will buy my kids' clothes at Primark and I won't be made to feel guilty for doing so. When I protest about issues that matter I will do so in a way that has a real effect on those who are causing the problem. Not to protest in a way that has an effect on those who have little other choice.



 



  • *
  • Banned
  • Posts: 14601

  • Liked: 4
  • Joined: Sep 2005
Re: Why do *you* hate Starbucks?
« Reply #106 on: August 08, 2008, 03:26:06 PM »
They may be ten years old but  there are still relevant issues, the environmental ones especially.

And I don't go to Burger King either.  The employment practices of my local chippy are fine, it is a family business, and I don't eat cod so I am conten that my environmental practices are sound.  I am well aware of the gang connections in NI, and for the same reason there are some pubs in North London I don't go to, and some Chinese restaurants in Soho I don't go to.  Believe me, I am VERY picky about this sort of thing, I know exactly what food I put inside me, I know exactly where my money goes, and what you think is being trendy is my being principled.  I won't shop in Primark and other low cost stores unless I am VERY sure about their employment practices.

Pretty sanctamonous, I guess, but I don't get preachy on others.  But I also don't expect my practices to be dismissed as snobby, faddy and trendy.  Buying clothes made by sweat shops is not helping the working classes, no matter how you try to dress it up.

Vicky


  • Dar
  • Geek of the medieval persuasion
  • *
  • Posts: 3845

  • Liked: 0
  • Joined: Sep 2006
  • Location: Gwynedd
Re: Why do *you* hate Starbucks?
« Reply #107 on: August 08, 2008, 03:32:18 PM »
Ultimately it is up to each individual to decide what is the line they want to draw. But like the clamor against Primark a lot of the targets of trendy boycotts seem to me to be the shops and services used by the working class. So there's this pat-yourself-on-the-back snobbishness underlying what is supposed to be progressive politics that specifically seeks to better the lives of working class people, and does so by looking down their noses at their lifestyles and attacking them. I think that is *bleep*ed up and that is something I refuse to support. That's where my line is.

So I will take the kids to McDonald's, I will indulge in Starbucks, I will buy my kids' clothes at Primark and I won't be made to feel guilty for doing so. When I protest about issues that matter I will do so in a way that has a real effect on those who are causing the problem. Not to protest in a way that has an effect on those who have little other choice.

By this logic, I must be a snob.  I refuse to shop at ASDA because it is Wal-Mart.  Wal-Mart has some incredibly questionable (and downright wrong) business practices.  The employees are treated very poorly and, as a corporation, they use some terrible tactics to push perfectly good businesses out of town.  I am aware that ASDA caters to the working class, but, in my refusal to shop there, I don't think that I am targeting the working class.  Nor am I taking anything away from anyone.  It is my personal choice because I feel that their business is no better than the mafia.  Yet, they are a "family store."  Ha!  I am certainly not patting myself on the back and acting like a snob.  I do not look down on others and see their lives as better or worse than my own.  I just refuse to support what I view as a corrupt business.

Have you thought about the people at the other end of the spectrum?  The people who work for pennies a day?  The children that create those clothes that you are buying for your children?   You worry about the working class here.  What about the working classes in China, India, etc?  I think that they deserve the same consideration.  And that is why I don't shop at ASDA, Primark, and other similar places.

ETA: Sorry, was typing when Vicky posted.
« Last Edit: August 08, 2008, 03:34:09 PM by Dar »
I am the architect of my destiny.


  • *
  • Posts: 456

  • Liked: 0
  • Joined: Jul 2007
Re: Why do *you* hate Starbucks?
« Reply #108 on: August 08, 2008, 03:45:42 PM »
I refuse to shop at ASDA because it is Wal-Mart.  Wal-Mart has some incredibly questionable (and downright wrong) business practices.  The employees are treated very poorly and...


As an aside ASDA (pre buyout) had a reputation as a very good employer, I don't know anyone who works there now but I wonder if they still are or have they been "Wal-Mart-ised?"


  • *
  • Banned
  • Posts: 1215

  • Liked: 0
  • Joined: Feb 2008
  • Location: Northern California
Re: Why do *you* hate Starbucks?
« Reply #109 on: August 08, 2008, 04:31:18 PM »
Just a quick defense of Burger King. I have fond memories of it, since it was my first 'high school' job. My manager back in the 80's was an immigrant who had only lived in the US for about 5 years at that point. She didn't speak a word of English when she arrived and it was the only place that would hire her. Fast forward to today: she owns about 13 Burger Kings in my parent's general area, and is a millionaire. I see her from time to time when I visit my parents and she still remembers me. VERY cool lady and boss. That job taught me loads of things that I still carry with me in the workplace.
Fast food places aren't perfect, but there are employers who treat their workers FAR worse than fast food restaurants. Ask the REAL bottom rung (at least in California), the migrant farm workers.
We are a nation that has a government -- not the other way around. And this makes us special among the nations of the earth. Our government has no power except that granted to it by the people. It is time to check and reverse the growth of government, which shows signs of having grown beyond the consent of the governed.
Ronald Reagan

�In questions of power, let no more be heard of confidence in man, but bind him down from mischief by the chains of the Constitution.� - Thomas Jefferson


Re: Why do *you* hate Starbucks?
« Reply #110 on: August 09, 2008, 10:31:51 AM »
I highly recommend the film "The Corporation" for people who feel strongly about the impact of corporations (either way, really).


  • *
  • Banned
  • Posts: 14601

  • Liked: 4
  • Joined: Sep 2005
Re: Why do *you* hate Starbucks?
« Reply #111 on: August 09, 2008, 11:44:39 AM »
Thanks for the tip.

I recommend the book 'No Logo' by Naomi Klein, which I would guess some on this thread have already read.

Vicky


Re: Why do *you* hate Starbucks?
« Reply #112 on: August 09, 2008, 02:26:06 PM »
By this logic, I must be a snob.

Me too. I think we all make choices based on what's important to us and I think it's tough to dispute that a lot of cheap stores and restaurants are cheap on the backs of people who are being taken advantage of. Just look at that new Rogue Restaurants programme - the reason that Chinese place was able to do a dirt cheap buffet is because they were hiring illegal workers who had no means of standing up for themselves because of their immigration status and paying them pennies. Not the sort of place I'd want to eat - if I only had 2 quid for lunch I'd go home and make a cheese sandwich....

I boycott Tesco because they run small grocers out of town and have single-handedly destroyed our high street. I'm sure there are other companies doing the same thing but I try to be as moral as I can be within my capabilities....

I also don't think it's fair to say that choosing not to buy clothes at places like Primark is unfair to the working classes who have to shop there. If those who could afford it bought higher quality clothes there would be a lot more potential for recycling - hand-me-downs, charity shops, etc. and I do not believe for even a second that the majority of Primark shoppers are working class - the one in our town is packed with people more concerned with finding something trendy because they know they can justify throwing it out next month when it's not fashionable anymore..... I have a couple of pieces from Primark but at least they were things that I've made last for well over a year.

But at the end of the day, I think we all have to make our own choices and we have to make those choices, IMHO, within our capabilities - if Tesco is the only game in town that's where you've got to shop.
« Last Edit: August 09, 2008, 02:27:45 PM by AnneR »


Re: Why do *you* hate Starbucks?
« Reply #113 on: August 09, 2008, 03:56:45 PM »
I think we all make choices based on what's important to us

genau!


Re: Why do *you* hate Starbucks?
« Reply #114 on: August 09, 2008, 04:05:38 PM »
Me too. I think we all make choices based on what's important to us and I think it's tough to dispute that a lot of cheap stores and restaurants are cheap on the backs of people who are being taken advantage of. Just look at that new Rogue Restaurants programme - the reason that Chinese place was able to do a dirt cheap buffet is because they were hiring illegal workers who had no means of standing up for themselves because of their immigration status and paying them pennies. Not the sort of place I'd want to eat - if I only had 2 quid for lunch I'd go home and make a cheese sandwich....

I boycott Tesco because they run small grocers out of town and have single-handedly destroyed our high street. I'm sure there are other companies doing the same thing but I try to be as moral as I can be within my capabilities....

I also don't think it's fair to say that choosing not to buy clothes at places like Primark is unfair to the working classes who have to shop there. If those who could afford it bought higher quality clothes there would be a lot more potential for recycling - hand-me-downs, charity shops, etc. and I do not believe for even a second that the majority of Primark shoppers are working class - the one in our town is packed with people more concerned with finding something trendy because they know they can justify throwing it out next month when it's not fashionable anymore..... I have a couple of pieces from Primark but at least they were things that I've made last for well over a year.

But at the end of the day, I think we all have to make our own choices and we have to make those choices, IMHO, within our capabilities - if Tesco is the only game in town that's where you've got to shop.

I agree completely.  Well put.


  • *
  • Posts: 5237

  • Liked: 12
  • Joined: Aug 2008
  • Location: Leeds
Re: Why do *you* hate Starbucks?
« Reply #115 on: November 13, 2008, 12:59:41 PM »
The Starbucks in London anyway always look slightly crappy and less than clean.  We usually go to Caffe Nero instead!
>^.^<
Married and moved to UK 1974
Returned to US 1995
Irish citizenship June 2009
    Irish passport September 2009 
Retirement July 2012
Leeds in 2013!
ILR (Long Residence) 22 March 2016


  • *
  • Posts: 6537

  • Liked: 0
  • Joined: Jul 2006
Re: Why do *you* hate Starbucks?
« Reply #116 on: November 13, 2008, 01:02:42 PM »
No more eggnog lattes.  Why?!  Well, I know why, they aren't popular here, but still.


Re: Why do *you* hate Starbucks?
« Reply #117 on: November 13, 2008, 01:56:19 PM »
Hmmmm...the only thing I hate Starbucks for is closing my favorite one in Derby! Now I have to use one of the two in Westfield instead which have really crappy atmospheres.
« Last Edit: November 13, 2008, 02:21:42 PM by WebyJ »


  • *
  • Posts: 284

  • Liked: 0
  • Joined: Nov 2004
  • Location: UK
Re: Why do *you* hate Starbucks?
« Reply #118 on: November 13, 2008, 02:17:00 PM »
No more eggnog lattes.  Why?!  Well, I know why, they aren't popular here, but still.

Exactly. I hate them now.
12/08/09 - Citizenship submitted via NCS
17/08/09 - Payment taken from account
18/09/09 - Citizenship approved, invitation to ceremony, dated 12/09/09
03/11/09 - Citizenship ceremony


  • *
  • Posts: 2840

  • Liked: 2
  • Joined: Aug 2002
  • Location: Wiltshire
Re: Why do *you* hate Starbucks?
« Reply #119 on: November 13, 2008, 06:24:50 PM »
They're doing a cherry coffee of some sort for the christmas season over here...I saw eggnog ones back home...and a delightful one that I somehow missed called marshmallow mocha latte....
"When a man is tired of London, he is tired of life; for there is in London all that life can afford." - Samuel Johnson


Sponsored Links





 

coloured_drab