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Topic: Why do *you* hate Starbucks?  (Read 37329 times)

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Re: Why do *you* hate Starbucks?
« Reply #90 on: August 04, 2008, 10:42:51 AM »
And I honestly don't think Starbucks has shut down that many independent coffee places.  There honestly weren't that many of them around before Starbucks.   You would have had a hard time finding anywhere to have a coffee after 5 pm in London 20 years ago.  Most towns only had a cafe or two-you were usually stuck with a Poppins or a horrible cafe in BHS or someplace like that.  This mythical land of independent coffee shops and cafes just didn't exist.  There are a LOT more places to have coffee now including new independent places.

Yep...  i totally agree with this.
In Glasgow, you could get really good coffee in Italian restaurants, and that was it.
There is a lot more choice now... i just choose to go somewhere apart from Starbucks when i have a choice.


Re: Why do *you* hate Starbucks?
« Reply #91 on: August 06, 2008, 08:01:20 AM »
... yesterday i went to Caffe Nero for the first time in about 4 years (there's not one near me)... and i can now agree with the poster(s) who said Caffe Nero are rubbish.   >:(



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Re: Why do *you* hate Starbucks?
« Reply #92 on: August 06, 2008, 08:07:11 AM »
... yesterday i went to Caffe Nero for the first time in about 4 years (there's not one near me)... and i can now agree with the poster(s) who said Caffe Nero are rubbish.   >:(



Oh I like their coffee! THey use two shots.... but I hate the cheap sweetener they use. I don't even bother pinching those! :D
"When a man is tired of London, he is tired of life; for there is in London all that life can afford." - Samuel Johnson


Re: Why do *you* hate Starbucks?
« Reply #93 on: August 06, 2008, 06:57:14 PM »
THey use two shots....

That's true... that's a point in their favour!
But i was still disappointed in their milk foam-- although it wasnt as bad as Starbucks!

The coffee wasnt as good as i remembered it being.


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Re: Why do *you* hate Starbucks?
« Reply #94 on: August 07, 2008, 09:48:27 AM »
That's true... that's a point in their favour!
But i was still disappointed in their milk foam-- although it wasnt as bad as Starbucks!

The coffee wasnt as good as i remembered it being.

Come visit me. I've got a great espresso maker... i'll make you a cappuccino that'll blow your head off!  ;D 
"When a man is tired of London, he is tired of life; for there is in London all that life can afford." - Samuel Johnson


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Re: Why do *you* hate Starbucks?
« Reply #95 on: August 07, 2008, 10:08:35 AM »
Come visit me. I've got a great espresso maker... i'll make you a cappuccino that'll blow your head off!  ;D 

I'm there !


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Re: Why do *you* hate Starbucks?
« Reply #96 on: August 07, 2008, 10:25:43 AM »
I'm there !

COOL!!!!!!!!!!!!  I'll get out my Shahrukh collection and do some Bollywood moves [smiley=2thumbsup.gif] [smiley=laugh4.gif]
"When a man is tired of London, he is tired of life; for there is in London all that life can afford." - Samuel Johnson


Re: Why do *you* hate Starbucks?
« Reply #97 on: August 07, 2008, 08:38:23 PM »
Come visit me. I've got a great espresso maker... i'll make you a cappuccino that'll blow your head off!  ;D 

might take you up on that!  ;)


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Re: Why do *you* hate Starbucks?
« Reply #98 on: August 07, 2008, 10:25:14 PM »
Starbucks is a coffeehouse, not a coffee shop (ala BHS or any other diner type place). In Belfast before Starbucks there were 3 coffeehouses, tops - one was Clements (a chain), the other was something whose name I can't recall but I also think was a chain and the last was the California Coffee Co which also might be a chain. Other than that, no coffee houses. Now that Starbucks is open, there are more Starbucks and none of the other coffeehouses have gone out of business. In fact I think more Clements have opened as well.

Starbucks quality varies from venue to venue. Some are excellent, some are crap, most are inbetween. Depending on the staff the vibe and focus of the place can be very different; some encourage the student vibe, others music, others business types and so on. So no, they aren't all the same, while they are all the same. This is true of Starbucks in the states as over here. You will also get loyal followings that will frequent one Starbucks but not the other up the road, because of those differences. It all depends.

Starbucks quality has gone downhill of late and this is reflected in the problems they are having. Their commitment to quality and quirkiness and being on the leading edge of commercialised bohemianism has waned. If they can regain that - and I think they can - they will survive and get a lot better. Trimming the fat will help.

Personally, I LOVE Starbucks. Back in the states I enjoyed them but you had such a range of choice of places to go and things to do that I wasn't that fussed over them. In Belfast it was like manna from heaven for me when they opened. FINALLY I could get a frappacino! And their location as mentioned was great for people watching.

But the best part when they opened was how they were the instant cure for homesickness or an attack of nostalgia. All the complaints about how they are all the same is exactly what made is so great to walk into. As soon as you stepped inside it smelt like home. I loved it. I could get a drink I liked that wasn't a pint of beer (oh and thank god for trendy cocktail bars catching on too, don't get me started on how bad the choice was for cocktails without them!!!), it was like sitting in California as it looked the same, smelt the same, the music was the same. Loved, loved, loved it. And I also really loved sitting there watching everyone else in the place enjoy themselves, which always seemed the case. Starbucks was a treat.  OH and Starbucks ALSO stayed open past 5pm which meant you could hang out in the city centre somewhere other than a pub in the evening, and it was after they opened and kept later + Sunday hours that other shops started following suit and now Belfast city centre is open late all the time. Hooray for working people who can't get somewhere during working hours, and for the start of a nightlife that isn't dependent on getting drunk!

Where I live now there isn't a Starbucks but there are some hole in the wall coffeehouses. Haven't had the chance to check the more interesting ones out but if Starbucks comes here I will be one happy woman. What we have are that French chain - La Brassier or something, and B&B as far as the chains go and they are dirty, the coffee is instant, the pastries stale and the staff couldn't care less. That is pretty much the standard for most Irish cafes. Maybe Starbucks coming will up their game a little.

And for those McDonald haters - I could never understand why lefties trash MickeyD's and not the restaurants where the rich waste their money, because McDonald's is like the ONE place where a working class family can afford to take the whole family out for a meal, that is kid friendly, and is striving to diversify its menu to be more healthy. Ok maybe not the 'one' place but it is the leading place for that sort of thing and the way I see it, when people attack McDonald's or get all snobby about it, they aren't attacking the rich bastards they are attacking the working class.

/off soapbox



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Re: Why do *you* hate Starbucks?
« Reply #99 on: August 08, 2008, 02:25:25 AM »
Starbucks quality varies from venue to venue. Some are excellent, some are crap, most are inbetween. Depending on the staff the vibe and focus of the place can be very different; some encourage the student vibe, others music, others business types and so on. So no, they aren't all the same, while they are all the same. This is true of Starbucks in the states as over here. You will also get loyal followings that will frequent one Starbucks but not the other up the road, because of those differences. It all depends.

Personally, I LOVE Starbucks. Back in the states I enjoyed them but you had such a range of choice of places to go and things to do that I wasn't that fussed over them.


I've found this to be the case where I live. The different Starbucks in my city do vary a bit depending on the location and crowd that frequents them. There are still quite a few other coffee house choices as well, and all of them have stepped up their game since Starbucks arrived. During the holidays, I love to treat myself to Starbucks' peppermint mochas and gingerbread lattes.

I don't go to McDonalds too much, but I still love their fries. When a craving comes on, nothing else will do.
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Re: Why do *you* hate Starbucks?
« Reply #100 on: August 08, 2008, 01:15:43 PM »

And for those McDonald haters - I could never understand why lefties trash MickeyD's and not the restaurants where the rich waste their money, because McDonald's is like the ONE place where a working class family can afford to take the whole family out for a meal, that is kid friendly, and is striving to diversify its menu to be more healthy. Ok maybe not the 'one' place but it is the leading place for that sort of thing and the way I see it, when people attack McDonald's or get all snobby about it, they aren't attacking the rich bastards they are attacking the working class.


Attacking the working class?  Are you kidding me?  Look at how they treat their staff and the pittance they pay and the fact that the don't allow unionisation.  Us 'lefties' are attacking the rich bastards who own the place, getting rich off underpaying their staff and feedling lard to children.  Look at the McLibel case, not to mention the environmental issues surrounding packaging and rain forest decimation.

It is a myth that MaccyD's are trying to be healthy.  Their salads have as many calories as their burgers.

It's not snobbish to have principles. And it's not snobbish to prefer to spend money on food that has more nutrition than cardboard.


Vicky


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Re: Why do *you* hate Starbucks?
« Reply #101 on: August 08, 2008, 01:25:20 PM »
Attacking the working class?  Are you kidding me?  Look at how they treat their staff and the pittance they pay and the fact that the don't allow unionisation.  Us 'lefties' are attacking the rich bastards who own the place, getting rich off underpaying their staff and feedling lard to children.  Look at the McLibel case, not to mention the environmental issues surrounding packaging and rain forest decimation.

No, I am not kidding you. For many working class people, adults and kids alike, McDonald's is the first rung on employment. It is a child friendly restaurant that is affordable for the whole family to eat out. It is a restaurant that is patronized and populated by working class people. You will not by and large find rich people working there in the restaurants nor eating there. Yet it is not corporate headquarters that lefties attack. It is lazy trendy-ism to attack McDonald's, because they are an easy symbol to target. But when you scratch the surface and look at who you are really attacking and who you are letting off when you pick a working class establishment over some snooty rich place, you see it for what it is. Bullshit. If you want to attack the rich bastards who are making money off of the working class then go to the restaurants where they eat and fricking attack them. By attacking McDonald's restaurants you are only attacking working class people.

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It is a myth that MaccyD's are trying to be healthy.  Their salads have as many calories as their burgers.

Yeah probably a myth like Starbucks putting the poor ickle independent coffee shops out of their misery.

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It's not snobbish to have principles. And it's not snobbish to prefer to spend money on food that has more nutrition than cardboard.

That is fair enough but it is snobbish to look down your nose at a working class establishment and to buy into trendy bullshit. You see for the most part the majority of the lefty intellectuals espousing the anti McDonald's bs never set foot in it, and aren't working class. And a lot of their politics is motivated by patronizing the working class rather than doing anything concrete that actually helps them - for example sneering at McDonald's or "Chavda" and yet supporting middle class establishments. Wouldn't want to actually mix with the lower classes you know.





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Re: Why do *you* hate Starbucks?
« Reply #102 on: August 08, 2008, 01:35:07 PM »
This is bullshit.  You may be right that *some* boycotters of MacDonalds have misguided, snobbish reasons for it, but this is certainly not the case of all of.  Disagree, but don't be so bloody patronising when you clearly have no idea about the motive behind everyone's politics of food.  Dismissing people as buying into some trendy-lefty fad is bang out of order.  There are plenty of working class people who boycott MacDonalds you know.  What do you have to say to them? 

And I see you are ignoring the basic facts of MacDonald's using and abusing the working classes, especially immigrants, but underpaying and mistreating.  How is refusing to supoort this 'attacking the working classes'?

Vicky


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Re: Why do *you* hate Starbucks?
« Reply #103 on: August 08, 2008, 01:51:16 PM »
If the shoe doesn't fit, don't wear it. Obviously I don't know every single individual's personal motive for why they eat what they do. Obviously I am generalising. You agree that what I am speaking of is true to a degree. And it is a lefty -trend that is something that cannot be denied. It's cool to hate McDonalds, Starbucks and anything American. That's been the trend for the last wee while. It will swing back the other way just as trends always do. There may be geniune reasons that started the trend but for the most part like a lot of lefty propaganda, it's superficial,or misleading, and has been addressed. To working class people who boycott McDonald's I say don't buy into the bougy guilt trip. If you like it, eat it if you don't, don't. But don't think you're striking a blow against the man cause the only people you are hurting with this sort of thing is the working class.

My experience with McDonald's employment practices would be that they are not the worst. In fact because they are so big and corporate they would be better than most. They are a minimum wage job but what do you expect? Like I say McDonald's is a first rung for many working class people (and immigrants!) of legitimate employment. I have not heard of McDonald's paying below minimum wage, nor of any systematic grievous mistreatment (unlike say Walmart which is horrid). If you want to point me to any references I will be happy to take a look at them.




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Re: Why do *you* hate Starbucks?
« Reply #104 on: August 08, 2008, 02:14:18 PM »
Fair enough.  I have been a boycotter of McD's, Nestle,  Monsanto et al since before it became trendy (and when I was a meat eating Tory and not the vegetarian leftie I am now) and it just bugs me when people assume I am jumping on a bandwagon when I am not.  It's like being an Arsenal supporter and having to justify yourself because you liked them back when they were rubbish.

Anyway..a few reasons that some of us hate McD's...

http://www.tgwu.org.uk/Templates/News.asp?NodeID=90633&int1stParentNodeID=42438&int2ndParentNodeID=89397&Action=Display

http://animalrights.about.com/od/companies/a/McDonaldsAnimal.htm

http://www.mcspotlight.org/campaigns/current/msc_tu.html

http://news.mongabay.com/2006/0406-greenpeace.html

For the record, I LOVE McDonald's fries, and I love the Filet O' Fish, and as for the milkshakes...wow!  But I don't hold with "If you like it, eat it if you don't, don't".  I hold with "I'm not going to give money to bastards".


Vicky


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