cant get back into uk!!!!

hello all
i am writing on behalf of a very good friend of mine who is now back in the usa having been here in northern ireland with me for almost one year.....when she first came here she came into the south of ireland and they only stamp your passport for 3 monthes..before that stamp was up she flew back to the states..when she came back within a few weeks ..again she came into the south of ireland and got a further 3 month stamp.....she tried to find someone over here that could help her in what direction she could go rather than flying back all the time to the states and she directed to this solicitor and was then  told by this solcitor that she didnt need to go to the states but just out of the uk..she was told to book a cheap flight to france for a day or so and then she would get her passport stamped and that if she flew back into belfast which is the uk she would be stamped for 6 monthes not 3..when she returned from france she came into belfast which is the united kingdom and they gave her a 6 month uk stamp...when that was almost up she went over to holland to a freind of mine for 2 days..when she came back to belfast they took her passport and told her that what she did was wrong..they eventually believed her that she didnt do this maliciously but took the advice of a professional..however they said that she would have to return to the states within 2 weeks....were she is now.....   and no one over there is able to help her.. she has been calling the consulates..but gets nowere.either she gets an answer machine or when she does get to speak with someone they either say that the person who deals with this is not at work or that he is busy.and that they would call her back which they never do..she did find out that she can apply for a residency visa (6 monthes) but as she is going through a divorce which is final any day now..they said that once she is divorced the residency visa is no longer no good..because she told them that we were living together as unmarried partners she has to apply for a fiance visa and then get married within 6 monthes..im wondering is there any appeals she can make..or any other way to get back here..any help would be very very much appreciated..
thanks
sean

Sean, your post is pretty confusing but if I get you right, your friend was told by UK immigration that she had to return to the US because she was not abiding by the official 6 month allowance. I guess that going to an EU country does not qualify as returning to the US!

Did they tell her she can't come back on another 6 month visa? If so, she's probably going to have to keep trying the consulate. Perhaps she could write a letter (and get it signed for) as well as calling. They can tell her what the terms of her 'ban' are if there is indeed one. It's frustrating but she'll have to keep trying.

There are lots of possibilities but you don't provide enough information. Does she have British parents? Are you planning on getting married or do you just want more time to see if you have a good relationship? Is she a student or does she want to be?

I'm sure others will have helpful information, too, but I think you may need to give us a bit more detail!

At the risk of coming off harsh, while technically your lady friend did nothing wrong, from what I'm understanding of your situation she did intentionally live in the UK with the intention of staying permanently and that IS against Immigration's rules.  It seems that the only real recourse in this situation is to wait until your friend is officially divorced and then apply for the appropriate visa, i.e., a fiancee visa or get married and apply for a spousal visa.  If neither of you are prepared to do that then it may be wise to re-examine the relationship and make some hard decisions about your future together.

I truly wish you both the best of luck and hope that it works out the way you're wanting it too. 

At the risk of coming off harsh, while technically your lady friend did nothing wrong, from what I'm understanding of your situation she did intentionally live in the UK with the intention of staying permanently and that IS against Immigration's rules.  It seems that the only real recourse in this situation is to wait until your friend is officially divorced and then apply for the appropriate visa, i.e., a fiancee visa or get married and apply for a spousal visa.  If neither of you are prepared to do that then it may be wise to re-examine the relationship and make some hard decisions about your future together.

I truly wish you both the best of luck and hope that it works out the way you're wanting it too. 

i agree....but i stayed for 6 months and my intention was staying...but of course we went back to the states to get married...and when we got to england...the immiagration person gave us grief saying she "could" had stopped me from entering...but i got throu anyways..,and i never applied for an visa...i just had to send my passport away twice that was all....i guess it depends or i was just lucky...either way i hope things work out for ya friend...

i agree....but i stayed for 6 months and my intention was staying...but of course we went back to the states to get married...and when we got to england...the immiagration person gave us grief saying she "could" had stopped me from entering...but i got throu anyways..,and i never applied for an visa...i just had to send my passport away twice that was all....i guess it depends or i was just lucky...either way i hope things work out for ya friend...

I'm not quite sure I understand your agreement then if you felt it was ok for you to do it that way.  I don't pretend to know anyone's situation fully let alone understand what causes people to make their decisions as they do, but I will say this: attempting to "settle" in the UK, i.e., live here permanently without going through the proper channels and getting the proper visa right off the bat is playing Immigration Roulette and gambling with their future in the sense that they may have major problems down the road when they do finally decide to get the proper visa.  I don't say this to stand in judgement of others.  I say this because this is the way UK Immigration is and because there have been plenty of folks here who have hair raising stories to tell.  I'm glad it's worked out well for you.  Hopefully it will for the original poster and his lady friend too.  I wish them both the best.

I'm not quite sure I understand your agreement then if you felt it was ok for you to do it that way.  I don't pretend to know anyone's situation fully let alone understand what causes people to make their decisions as they do, but I will say this: attempting to "settle" in the UK, i.e., live here permanently without going through the proper channels and getting the proper visa right off the bat is playing Immigration Roulette and gambling with their future in the sense that they may have major problems down the road when they do finally decide to get the proper visa.  I don't say this to stand in judgement of others.  I say this because this is the way UK Immigration is and because there have been plenty of folks here who have hair raising stories to tell.  I'm glad it's worked out well for you.  Hopefully it will for the original poster and his lady friend too.  I wish them both the best.

i understand what your saying i guess we sorta chanced  coming back into the country after we had just married  in the states...it was really hit and miss...like i said she could had stopped me..and we were waiting an hour...after a major grilling which wasnt fun....
but i did send off to get an exterstantion for my passport after...then got the permit leave to remain ...but yea... i wouldnt advise doing it my way..even thou i was lucky...i did get a grilling..but i do understand what you are saying elle the thing is we both didnt look into it...
we were both clueless...but things have gotten tighter this was back in 1999 to.. so a lot has changed

i understand what your saying i guess we sorta chanced  coming back into the country after we had just married  in the states...it was really hit and miss...like i said she could had stopped me..and we were waiting an hour...after a major grilling which wasnt fun....
but i did send off to get an exterstantion for my passport after...then got the permit leave to remain ...but yea... i wouldnt advise doing it my way..even thou i was lucky...i did get a grilling..but i do understand what you are saying elle the thing is we both didnt look into it...
we were both clueless...but things have gotten tighter this was back in 1999 to.. so a lot has changed

Understood.

hello...i seem to have wrote my original post and confused some people...
firstly she did not let her visa run out..
when she first came here as a visitor last march 2003  she entered ireland via the republic of ireland which is NOT  the uk..they only stamp your passport for 3 monthes..she stayed here with me in the north of ireland which is the UK for about 1 month then she went back to the united states were she stayed for a few weeks..then she came back to ireland via the rebublic as a visitor again but this time they refused to stamp her passport for the 3 monthes and stamped for 1 month instead..the man at the immigration in dublin airport told her that she was to go to the immigrations office in dublin to get the remainder of her stamp..she spoke to someone who told her that as she was NOT  staying in the republic of ireland that it was the UK HOME OFFICE she needed to speak to which she did and they told her that she did not need to go to the dublin immigration office to get her passport stamped because she was staying in the UK...the home office then stamped her passport for her...but only for the remainder of the 3 monthes ...as i said in my original post she was told by a solicitor who was supposed to be able to inform people on these matters that she did not need to go back to the usa when her stamp expires but just needs to go out of the uk...so as i said just 2 days or so before her 3 month stamp expired she left the uk and went to france and when she came back into the uk via belfast this time they stamped her passport for 6 monthes..then a few days before that expired she went to holland for a few days..only this time when she came back to the uk/belfast they refused her entry...and after being questioned for 2 hours and even going to a meeting with immigrations at the airport about 2 weeks later they refused her a stamp..they belive her that she didnt deliberately do wrong but was badly and wrongly advised by this solicitor..and they gave her 2 weeks to leave the uk...where they gave her passport back to her when she was at the airport 2 weeks later for her return flight to the usa...
in response to someone elses comment here she has no family who were ever british or irish..her great grandfather was irish..but they dont count that...
and yes they told her in the usa that she could apply for a 6 month residency visa but only if she is not divorced but as she is hoping to have her divorce final any day now that wont apply..they are just giving her the option now of a fiance visa...and that is why she is desperately trying to speak to someone in the british consulate in the usa but cant get to speak with anyone about this matter....
in a few days she may be posting messages on this forum herself..
thanks
sean     

If I'm understanding you correctly, your friend is trying to stay in the UK as much as possible and is only leaving the UK when absolutely necessarry in order to gain re-entry.  That IS NOT allowed according to the immigration rules.  She apparently has intention to stay in the UK on a long-term basis (if not permanently).  Therefore, she must apply for the appropriate visa (be it fiancee', spousal, work permit, student, etc.).  Only then can she stay in the UK permanently.  Someone in immigration has seen what she's doing (and honestly, they were bound to, sooner or later), and is suspicious that she's trying to settle in the UK without a proper visa (and it looks like that's what she's doing).

What many people don't understand is that you aren't automatically entitled to entry into any country.  Your friend is doing something suspicious (and possibly illegal in that she's trying to find a way around the rules) and is, unfortunately, paying the price for that. 

She needs to look into a visa if she's planning on living in the UK. 

I'm not sure what her divorce has to do with a 6 month visa to come here. Anyone? Seems to me she's going to have to wait out some time before coing back (if I understand Jemima correctly).

Sean, I don't think there is some magic solution here. UK Immigration is very strict and they are overwhelmed. You need to play by the rules. Though it appears the Home Office does now believe your friend that she was following poor legal advice, she still needs to be very careful as they will keep their eye on her with any further attempts to go to the UK.

If you aren't ready to marry within 6 months or so (fiancee visa) but don't want to end your relationship, you will have to have a long distance relationship - which many on this site are in, or have been in- until you decide what your future holds.

Possibly she might consider hiring a reputable immigration attorney? But again, they would only advise her to play by the rules.

You need to take a look at the different types of visas available (see other threads in this forum) or look at the visa page on this site:

http://www.uk-yankee.com/immigration.php

If she doesn't qualify for one of these, or doesn't want to do them (such as fiancee or student), then she can't come whenever she wants. It's really that simple.

Whew.....

The solicitor gave advice whereby she could technically stay within the law.  True enough, a Europe trip will satisfy the requirement to leave the UK before your visitor's stamp expires.  You ARE NOT required to go back to your home country, only out of the UK.  The solicitor was correct.  However, it's also true that technically, you can only remain in the UK on a visitor's stamp for 6 months a year, regardless.   They sometimes overlook this and stamp you anyway (they did this for a good friend of mine who was visiting me, went to France on business, and came back a few days later--she got a new 6-month stamp and she did not ask for one nor did she need one).  However, you can by NO means count on them overlooking the 6-month total requirement.  Your partner may well have faced the same problem if she had gone back to the States and come back 2 days later, instead of going to Holland. 

I am very surprised that her solicitor did not warn her of the risk she was running if she tried the Europe hop a second time.  When I asked about building up time towards the unmarried partner visa, my solicitor specifically warned me against doing what your gf did.  He said that some people get away with it once, but after that I was likely to be heavily questioned at best, immediately deported at worst, and he could not in good conscience recommend this strategy to anyone.  UK Immigration are under a great deal of pressure to turn away anyone who strikes them as having even the slightest bit of improper intent.  Unfortunately, this means they are often giving a hard time to people who simply want to live here in peace with their partners but have not yet built up enough living-together time to get a proper UP visa.  It's a catch-22 and I feel for you...I went through this myself...they say you must prove 2 years of cohabitation but they make it impossible for you to be together in the UK long enough to do that, unless you can get a work permit or have access to enough money to get a student visa. 

What's more, they do not apply the rules in any kind of even-handed manner.  My friend got a second 6-month stamp (without even wanting one, mind) coming off the Eurostar as a routine matter--my theory is that because she was white, fortyish, and professionally dressed, she did not fit any of their profiles and so they didn't even look twice at her.  They deliberately target certain people for questioning.  In addition to the much-ballyhooed racial profiling, which occurs even though it is officially denied, other frequent targets are:  people who admit to being in a gay relationship with a Brit (to see if they are trying to build up time towards the UP visa while on visitors' stamps--techincally, that's "intent to settle" and is not allowed, although some gay couples have had success on appeal because of the catch-22 nature of the requirements); young women traveling alone especially outside the "student" seasons (to see if they intend to marry in the UK without getting the proper visa first); young men and women who don't appear to have a lot of money but who state that they intend to visit for a full six months (to see if they intend to get a job in the UK without a proper permit); and anyone who seems, from their recent immigration history, which they see on the computer screen when they run your passport through the reader, as if they may be trying to settle in the UK on a visitor's stamp.

Now that Immigration has given your gf an official hard time, she may require some sort of entry clearance to get back into the UK, even as a visitor.  If she is going to be divorced soon, my guess is that your fastest option to get her back into the UK would be the fiancee visa.  If you two don't want to do that, then either you will have to endure a long distance relationship for a while, or she will have to look into student status, work permits, long-term volunteering (tough to get, but doable), or one of the special immigration programs such as "highly skilled" if she qualifies for them.

I'm not trying to be harsh but this is the reality of dealing with UK Immigration.

I'm curious as to this "residency visa" you keep talking about, Sean, and what it has to do with whether or not she's divorced?  Could you clarify that?

I'm curious as to this "residency visa" you keep talking about, Sean, and what it has to do with whether or not she's divorced?  Could you clarify that?

hi...this residency visa...she told them in the usa that we were living together and that i was supporting her...they told her that to come back here she needs to apply for a residency visa which would be for 6 monthes...but as her divorce is almost final..should be void within a few days now..they said that if the residency visa was issued and it costs something like £140gbp and before she left for the uk her divorce was final she no longer can use the residency visa..so that would be a waste of time and money and the only other option she has is then a fiance visa..   

hi...this residency visa...she told them in the usa that we were living together and that i was supporting her...they told her that to come back here she needs to apply for a residency visa which would be for 6 monthes...but as her divorce is almost final..should be void within a few days now..they said that if the residency visa was issued and it costs something like £140gbp and before she left for the uk her divorce was final she no longer can use the residency visa..so that would be a waste of time and money and the only other option she has is then a fiance visa..   

Okay....anyone else here heard of anything like this?  Because I sure haven't. 

Hmmm...haven't heard of a residency visa either.   


Sean, I'd heartily suggest that your friend visit the IND website and peruse the visa options available to her.  I'd also suggest that she NEVER again take any advice from the person who has been advising her thus far.