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Topic: Three years on....thoughts  (Read 9559 times)

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Re: Three years on....thoughts
« Reply #15 on: August 30, 2012, 06:20:00 PM »
I know people do, and I'm sure we could find a nice place in Yorkshire, say...

I am not sure if by this you are meaning that you're looking to investigate the Yorkshire situation (you really should!) or if you meant that 'oop north isn't a desirable place to be - which if the latter, well lol!

IMO, the North in general is the closest I've come to that Midwestern lovin' feeling.  I enjoy travelling throughout the UK, but I don't feel at home (thus far) except in the North.  I'm from Kansas originally - and the environment/vibe/work-life balance up here reminds me of so much that is great about the Midwest but without some of the Midwestern bits I found annoying.  It's the lower cost of living, people being incredibly friendly & welcoming, more wide open spaces, fresh air, fewer crowds, etc etc etc.  And a nice variety of really fun cities too!  I really feel the sense of community here & have always just got on with local folks like a house on fire.

Some of my fellow Northerners feel free to pile on - racheeee? Jennie? so many others?  My friends here who moved from down south are all over the moon that they did & never looked back.

You should check it out up here sometime - but don't limit yourself only to Yorkshire.  So many great cities & their 'burbs up here with a fabulous pace of life - Manchester, Leeds, Sheffield, Newcastle & so on.  And more national park square acreage (in multiple national parks) within short driving distances than you can shake a stick at too!

You've not got the warmer beachy thing here that you've got going on in Brighton (but Illinois doesn't exactly have that either), but you should just meet our friend, the North Sea!  ;D

I understand the 'grass is always greener' feeling, but what I don't always understand is the moving back & forth thing that some folks do - unless it's being driven by job opportunities (with sweet relocation packages) or a family situation (elderly parents, grandchildren, etc).  Surely you end up losing a lot financially by making (and paying for) successive international moves?  I'm glad I only had to do it once (so far)!
« Last Edit: August 30, 2012, 06:28:27 PM by Mrs Robinson »
Ring the bells that still can ring
Forget your perfect offering
There is a crack, a crack in everything
That's how the light gets in...

- from Anthem, by Leonard Cohen (b 1934)


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Re: Three years on....thoughts
« Reply #16 on: August 31, 2012, 09:19:23 AM »
I took a trip up to the Peak District earlier this year, and really liked what I saw -- I definitely didn't mean to imply that The North is in any way undesirable. One of the recurring themes on this thread is how nice it is there. I guess the only snag is that I know the job market is a little tighter up there. Which is not to say that you can't find something if you look.

Thanks for the input, though. Much appreciated.
"The stars don't shine upon us / We're in the way of their light"

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Re: Three years on....thoughts
« Reply #17 on: August 31, 2012, 02:52:46 PM »
Oh yay!  Glad you made it up to check out the Peak District!  Other great places to check out & go on holiday up here:

Yorkshire Dales National Park

North York Moors National Park

Lake District National Park

North Yorkshire Coast

Let's see, you said you already saw the Peak District...no visit to Yorkshire is really complete without a stop in York, of course!

Jobs - well I suppose that is a bit reliant on what sector(s) a person works in & what kind of opportunities are about... My husband has been doing the same job now for 12-13 years - only with a change in the name of his employer from time to time over the years (he's in IT).

Still, with Leeds & Manchester - you're talking about the 3rd & 4th largest cities/urban areas (after London & Birmingham) in England...they seem to swap places around (and with Liverpool figuring in top 5 too) depending on the measure/definition used, i.e., what is actually the city boundary (vs the suburban sprawl, separate-but-related cities nearby), population, etc.  So whilst we do have all these amazing national parks & gorgeous rural areas to get away to, with these cities it's not like we're in the middle of nowhere without opportunities about.

For example, outside of London, Leeds is known as a big hub for business, legal, and financial services, and it seems there's a fair bit of IT work about here too.  Quite a bit of engineering up here as well, plus with Manchester - science, media, sports & I'm sure a whole lot more!

If you ever need help or info about stuff up here, just give me a shout.  If I don't know the answer, I probably know someone who does - a good mate up here is a chartered town planner & he knows everything about everything on cities & towns from Wales to Berwick-Upon-Tweed (plus being a native Yorkshire lad).

Further north is good too - I loved Newcastle & Durham as well!  And the Lake District is beautiful as can be, but living there - you'd be kinda rural, IMO without a big city within reasonable commute...although maybe not by London standards...just bear in mind the roads in some places here (national park areas) get narrower & more squiggly & hilly...  :)

Oh & Northumberland National Park & the Northumberland seaside - so spacious, uncrowded, unspoilt, beautiful!  Sorry I keep thinking of more great stuff.  :P
Ring the bells that still can ring
Forget your perfect offering
There is a crack, a crack in everything
That's how the light gets in...

- from Anthem, by Leonard Cohen (b 1934)


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Re: Three years on....thoughts
« Reply #18 on: August 31, 2012, 03:33:49 PM »
I understand the 'grass is always greener' feeling, but what I don't always understand is the moving back & forth thing that some folks do - unless it's being driven by job opportunities (with sweet relocation packages) or a family situation (elderly parents, grandchildren, etc).  Surely you end up losing a lot financially by making (and paying for) successive international moves?  I'm glad I only had to do it once (so far)!
That used to be my thinking as well.  When we moved here in 2005 it was with the intent that we would not move back to the States.  We came over without a relo package (even though MrRed5 had secured a job) and spent ££££ moving all of our stuff over.  Between that expense and purchasing two cars (not to mention all the electrical items) we were out a lot of money. 
If we move back it will be with a relo package.  Even with that we will more than likely take a hit on our house.  We will be going from a very expensive place in England to a very expensive place in the States (San Jose).  Neither one of us are getting any younger and we really don't want to start all over again.  Yet the older our daughters become the less I am thrilled about them growing up here. 
If the job transfer was to a place in the States with a cheaper cost of living it would be a no brainer for us. 
Sorry for the hijack D_A_D


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Re: Three years on....thoughts
« Reply #19 on: August 31, 2012, 04:32:48 PM »
No problem -- hijack away!
"The stars don't shine upon us / We're in the way of their light"

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Re: Three years on....thoughts
« Reply #20 on: August 31, 2012, 05:12:49 PM »
Well everyone is going to have their own opinion of what is good, and what is better & what is best - viva la difference!  And I sure wish everyone well whatever they decide to do.  I think part of my comment was based on people I've known who moved over here & were miserable, then moved back & were miserable, then wanted to move back again...

It'll definitely be interesting, D_A_D, for you to gather your impressions & thoughts when you go back for your visit.

When I go back to the US now to visit family - we have a good time seeing my family & I do a lot of shopping & fill up an empty suitcase, but I am always well ready to come home at the end of the 2 weeks or whatever!  I find the US culture now, I don't know, kinda jarring I guess.  TV drives me insane over there.  US politics has gotten scary, not to mention the random mass shootings that are occurring here & there about every other week - those things freak me the h*ck out!  Also the healthcare situation & the unlikelihood that any job I might find would give me more than a week or two annual holiday...no thanks!  We love our NHS & all the time we get to travel - making the most of that every year.  My own standard of living has been better here than it ever was in 39+ years of living in the US -- I realise these are very individual & subjective things, however.

In my case, once I got over an initial 2-3 year adjustment period, I've been mostly as happy as Larry here (whoever he is)!  I could do with some better weather...but I think it may be more like take your pick (with climate change) - rainier & colder (here), or burning up like nobody's business (there).

I also found once I felt happier in myself, I started to feel a lot more settled as well.  The problem when I used to have 'grass is greener' thinking myself, and I moved from A to B (different areas in the US, one cross country move also when I was there), well I always took myself along!  :o :)
Ring the bells that still can ring
Forget your perfect offering
There is a crack, a crack in everything
That's how the light gets in...

- from Anthem, by Leonard Cohen (b 1934)


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Re: Three years on....thoughts
« Reply #21 on: August 31, 2012, 07:08:40 PM »
I love moving here, there and everywhere, but I don't have kids. 

I just applied for jobs in places I thought would be interesting, packed up the car and went.  My only regret is that I only lived as far west as St. Louis, although it is the furthest south I would want to go.  ;)


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Re: Three years on....thoughts
« Reply #22 on: September 03, 2012, 09:52:48 AM »
Dent, thanks for updating.  I'll be interested in hearing your thoughts after you've gone back for a visit to the US.

We don't have plans to move back to the US, although we do talk over the pros and cons from time to time.  I'm very frustrated with the housing situation here too so I can understand your feelings about that.  The cost of houses is just so out of whack with income levels in this country.  For a family with children (whose choices are more limited by needing to buy a house with more bedroom space in a neighborhood with good schools, and who are also paying higher rent while trying to save) it is extremely difficult to buy a house here unless you're already on the property ladder and are moving up from a smaller place, or you have parents to help with a deposit.
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Re: Three years on....thoughts
« Reply #23 on: September 03, 2012, 01:58:47 PM »
Thanks for the responses. I was talking about all this with my wife last night (today is our 3-year 'immiversary') and she said that she is much happier here than she was in the States, which was nice to hear. I think part of what has been hard for me is the sense of guilt over separating her from her various friends and family in the US -- like I said, we have met some nice people here, but there is always that distance, you know? We both miss being important to people, rather than simply getting together with them every once in a while.

I think one thing that I need to remember is that it is very easy to confuse nostalgia for a PLACE with nostalgia for a TIME. As my kids are growing up, I am struggling a bit with the passing of time and a big part of me wishes they would never have to get big, so naturally my mind goes back to when they were little and this happens to coincide with when we lived in the US. If we did move back, our time in the UK would then fall within the category of 'places we lived when the kids were younger' and so I would start to miss it too.

Does anyone else have this? I feel a bit crazy sometimes -- just very prone to sentimentality and nostalgia, which can be a painful and exhausting way to go through liife.
"The stars don't shine upon us / We're in the way of their light"

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Re: Three years on....thoughts
« Reply #24 on: September 03, 2012, 02:21:34 PM »
Does anyone else have this? I feel a bit crazy sometimes -- just very prone to sentimentality and nostalgia, which can be a painful and exhausting way to go through liife.

I'm guilty of this! (Hence a lot of my moves...That never worked out the way I thought!) I do have this here as well. But I think the reason for that is because back in Boise, I had a VERY active social life and hobbies, (especially outdoors! Lots of hiking and stuff!) money was tight, but thanks to my friends, I could keep sane...Here, money is tight, but I have no one to really talk to locally (All my friends are over an hour away!) I could call my friends here on the phone, but it's not the same as being able to go on a last minute hike with a bestie (because weather was always good for it!) or someone locally I can call up after work and grab a coffee with. With my husband gone all the time, it makes it really lonely here for me and that's when I start with the sentiments and nostalgia...Reminiscing...etc. I love it here, but that's honestly always been my one frustration.

Glad you were able to feel more settled about things!  :)
~Amberelle


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Re: Three years on....thoughts
« Reply #25 on: September 03, 2012, 02:43:10 PM »
D_A_D,

We have met, in person, a number of times, and I have met your lovely wife, and you very smart, unique children... So, I felt I had to weigh in a bit here...

You and your wife are fantastic parents, and in the end I suspect the decision you make will have a lot to do with what you feel will be best for your awesome kids.

Therefore, you will not make the wrong move, no matter what you two decide to do!

I miss 'being someone important' too. I miss my closest friends, and I have not formed such close connections here. I have only been here a year and a half, and I hope this will change over time. I've just collected a few very cool people I that hang out with. For me, that has been the hardest part. But, I am someone important to my husband, which counts for a lot! And, he IS here. So, that counts!

I also miss 'home' but I find that I miss *The Idea of Home* more than I actually miss my former life. Mostly I miss my close friends. I think I mix the two in my head a bit, ya know?

Call me the next time you are headed up to Borough Market! I go there every week. It would be great to see you guys!

xoxo,
L.
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Re: Three years on....thoughts
« Reply #26 on: September 04, 2012, 10:04:17 AM »
Awww, thanks Lara! :)
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Re: Three years on....thoughts
« Reply #27 on: September 04, 2012, 05:28:25 PM »
Hi ADA,

There's some great posts and points above all offering various perspectives and views. To me, stuff like that is important as part of 'evaluation processes' to help in making informed decisions i.e independent views from other people etc.

It's nothing new on this forum from me to try and look at things from a financial, high level point of view for the most part and also to know of and understand the 'personal' aspects as well.

From that, you've basically mentioned what I've spoken to lots of people about in real life, both from the USA to the UK people and UK to the USA people. In your case, you have lived here for 3 years and have now mentioned things in your initial post on this thread. To compare, I've spoken to people who've thought and mentioned the same things within 6-8 weeks and then run off back to the US as fast as a plane could take them, and other's who've now been here 20,30, 40+ years. In short, this sort of decision can only come from you and discussion with your better half and/or family etc.

On the higher level, much as I wish for the UK to pull itself out of the economic doldrums as quick as it can, the indicators and general outlook isn't good for at least a couple more years. The US in some aspects is showing the very early signs of recovery and whilst that will 'ripple through' to other countries again, it takes plenty of time. The amount the UK is in the 'mire' and with the unstability of what's going on with the Euro / Euro countries etc, certain in terms the G8, the UK is likely to be the last to pull itself out of the 'mire' and back into good levels of prosperity/growth again. As a result, the basic requirements of life/needs are still and potential always going to be extremely expensive. Housing, even in this worst of recessions remains at unaffordable (and currently unobtainable) levels, fuel & transport costs are right up there as the most expensive in the world, food and utilities also being very expensive as well. Many people's disposable incomes have been severely reduced and in plenty of cases, none left etc. From your post this sounds as though where you are at - much less disposable income left over,even as you bring in good levels of income. I suspect, you are looking at a longer term view and perhaps don't want to be saddled with a life of debt for your remaining working life just to afford a 'nice home' in which to live here in the UK? tied into that, is of course the most important aspect of your life which is your Kids and their futures. When you directly compare these basic elements of life, there is no doubt you'd be better off in the US. Now to counter that, I do know that medical insurances are and can be a very big part of US based expenses, which then goes some way to 'balancing' things out expenses wise between the US and UK, however on the whole, the balance is still firmly tipped in the US' favour.

Going back to the points earlier, I've seen people via work coming here, via businesses and also via personal routes - family and marriages etc, and quite a few have gone back once the 'honeymoon' period is over and longer term wants in terms of family etc and many have indeed stayed. It's the same the other way around, I've seen, met and know many who've left the UK, gone to the US and either scarpered back here in next to no time and many who've stayed.

I'll be a bit grey and boring here, but like it or not, try to deny it or wash over it, there's no denying that in life everything will revolve around money. That money is what will help you do things, from basics and everyday life and bills to holidays and visiting europe as its so close to the UK (as often mentioned!) when there's a lack of disposable income for those nice 'personal' aspects, there's a reduction in being able to achieve those aspects which invariably leads to thoughts of envy as to wanting them as well for you and your family/kids. No point in living close to Europe for instance if you can't actually access going there !

I think by keeping a dual citizenship in the long run, that's probably going to allow greater flexibility for you and it's something I've seen done very often indeed. You can then move between the two when you see fit, I'm not saying it's easy, but certainly easier to do practically. Perhaps head back to the US whilst the UK tries and does pull itself outof the 'mire' and potentially return later?

I know it's tough to decide, but I always say to have as much information and viewpoints as you can get to help, just thought I'd add mine in there too!

Cheers, DtM! West London & Slough UK!


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Re: Three years on....thoughts
« Reply #28 on: September 05, 2012, 07:37:15 AM »
Thanks for sharing your thoughts, D-A-D. I can't believe it's been three years already.

I read all these posts with great interest. After six years in the UK we are spending a six-month sabbatical in the US. We weren't coming here to test any waters. We've been content with our lives in England. It was just an opportunity to spend time with my family, especially my mother who will be 80 next year.

I was terrified before we left that this six months would completely rock my boat and I would return to England feeling confused, discontent, possibly resentful. But so far (and we're two months into it) I find I'm looking forward to getting back to England. I miss it. (I miss it quietly because people here would simply not believe that I'd prefer it to California.)

I feel lucky to have had this opportunity. And I feel hugely relieved that England still feels like home.

Good luck with your visit back to the states! I hope it makes things clearer for you and your wife.

 


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Re: Three years on....thoughts
« Reply #29 on: September 05, 2012, 08:01:57 PM »
Thanks for the responses. I was talking about all this with my wife last night (today is our 3-year 'immiversary') and she said that she is much happier here than she was in the States, which was nice to hear.

Yay!  I'm sure it was good to hear that.  What things have made her happier living here, vs being in the US?

  I think one thing that I need to remember is that it is very easy to confuse nostalgia for a PLACE with nostalgia for a TIME...  Does anyone else have this? 

Oh heck yeah!  :)  I do have nostalgia for a lot of TIMES that unfortunately are receding more & more into the distant past for me now.  In my case, it really is the circumstance that I can't 'go home' again - the 'home' I once knew in the US (first my hometown in Kansas & the other places I lived there, then later a 'home' I knew in Tampa Bay) simply no longer exists.  Those homes involved extended family (parents, grandparents, aunts & uncles) who are no longer living, and my friends in other places have moved on as well.  So the life I knew just isn't there any longer - to go back would be as alien to me now as moving to a completely new place!  I go back to visit my brothers & their families, but they both live in states that I have never lived in, so that isn't home to me.  Here with my husband and near my in-laws, and the network of friends I have developed -- here is home now.  I've lived in this single place here now, longer than I ever lived anywhere in the US since I left my parents' home -- and it's very touching to me that I feel for the first time in my adult life that I actually have a real home!


...like I said, we have met some nice people here, but there is always that distance, you know? We both miss being important to people, rather than simply getting together with them every once in a while.

And that's the sort of thing you build over time as far as friends & social networks are concerned anyway.  :)  It may seem like a long time now, but really even three years is just a drop in the bucket.  I probably really didn't feel settled here, with a good new network of friends until I had been here 3-5 years - now there are so many, I have trouble keeping up with everyone!  :P
Ring the bells that still can ring
Forget your perfect offering
There is a crack, a crack in everything
That's how the light gets in...

- from Anthem, by Leonard Cohen (b 1934)


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