Three years on....thoughts

Dennis, I wonder - have you lived in the US?

I think one thing that I need to remember is that it is very easy to confuse nostalgia for a PLACE with nostalgia for a TIME.

ADA, that's beautifully said and brilliantly insightful.

I keep thinking about that one line too... "I think one thing that I need to remember is that it is very easy to confuse nostalgia for a PLACE with nostalgia for a TIME."

ADA is actually a rather talented writer. I read his 'mini works' regularly.

He writes with a lot of wit, humour, and sensitivity.

I bet we, as expats, or immigrants, (however one identifies) would be hard pressed NOT to relate to that statement. It is so on point!

Sometimes it is so nice to log onto this page and see posts by other people who just 'get it' - ya know!?

Although I'm quite new to the U.K I can speak of one woman who returned to Detroit after living in Norwich for 6 years because she thought it would be cheaper. Detroit is cheap for a reason but for a year she was content. A year later however she was diagnosed with Throid cancer. The healthcare cost in excess of $250,000 and that wiped her out financially. She now wishes she didn't leave. I agree it might be cheaper in the US but the security that comes in the UK,such as the NHS takes a huge burden off of me. I just feel happier in the uk and a lot more relaxed,I don't have o worry about basic human needs as much as in the USA.

ADA is actually a rather talented writer.


I agree!

Dennis, I wonder - have you lived in the US?

May I speak for Dennis. He would like to move to Canada or failing that the US. He spends a lot of time in the US. He comes here to the US about 5 times a year with his business.

I remember Arthur posting before he left the US. He was in a dither at that time, if I remember correctly?
I always like his posts.

Cheers

Hi,

I've not actually 'lived' in the USA at all. In addition to what Cheers mentions, I have a lot of family and extended family as well as their close personal friends dotted throughout the USA and have been visiting the US on average 2-3 times per year since around 1987. During my IT career, based here in the UK, I worked for 3 larger US companies and have many ex work colleagues who were American and came to work/live here on permanent and temporary setups. I've also had some of my personal friends move/work on the same sort of setups to the USA as well as family friends here move/work there as well with their businesses or via their employers or, study and go to find (and found) work in the US.

I know all of that doesn't quite 'beat' actually living in the US for a longer period, however with the sheer amount of knowledge, feedback, discussion and findings from all of my contact there I have a very good idea overall and always looking and listening for more information and discussion etc !. Canada is my first choice to move to if I can as it's a little 'easier' in terms of the criteria required, I have a similar range of contacts as above there as well!

I hear many instances of the NHS and the access to healthcare such as the one posted above and there are many instances of that. The US healthcare system has its negatives as well as it's positives too. Just for added balance, there's plenty of instances where the medical system here in the UK has failed quite badly and continues to do so, also there is still this myth that the NHS means coverage for everything - it doesn't. There quite a few countries around the world with healthcare systems that make the NHS look like a jokeshop in comparison and some of those elements are what made some of my relatives (specialists in their medical fields) choose to leave working for the NHS and move to the US.

So, whilst individual circumstances will and do vary, on the higher level the UK doesn't offer the potential as much as the US does in many aspects of modern life for many people.

Cheers, DtM! West London & Slough UK!

Hi,

I've not actually 'lived' in the USA at all. In addition to what Cheers mentions, I have a lot of family and extended family as well as their close personal friends dotted throughout the USA and have been visiting the US on average 2-3 times per year since around 1987. During my IT career, based here in the UK, I worked for 3 larger US companies and have many ex work colleagues who were American and came to work/live here on permanent and temporary setups. I've also had some of my personal friends move/work on the same sort of setups to the USA as well as family friends here move/work there as well with their businesses or via their employers or, study and go to find (and found) work in the US.

I know all of that doesn't quite 'beat' actually living in the US for a longer period, however with the sheer amount of knowledge, feedback, discussion and findings from all of my contact there I have a very good idea overall and always looking and listening for more information and discussion etc !. Canada is my first choice to move to if I can as it's a little 'easier' in terms of the criteria required, I have a similar range of contacts as above there as well!

I hear many instances of the NHS and the access to healthcare such as the one posted above and there are many instances of that. The US healthcare system has its negatives as well as it's positives too. Just for added balance, there's plenty of instances where the medical system here in the UK has failed quite badly and continues to do so, also there is still this myth that the NHS means coverage for everything - it doesn't. There quite a few countries around the world with healthcare systems that make the NHS look like a jokeshop in comparison and some of those elements are what made some of my relatives (specialists in their medical fields) choose to leave working for the NHS and move to the US.

So, whilst individual circumstances will and do vary, on the higher level the UK doesn't offer the potential as much as the US does in many aspects of modern life for many people.

Cheers, DtM! West London & Slough UK!

We will gave to agree to disagree on that one. No healthcare service is perfect,and nor is any of them free. But the NHS is better than anything the US offers. The amount of family friends left either dead or bankrupt that I know is astonishing and people in the U.K are often disgusted by that! I must also add that modern life in my part of America (Detroit) does not so your claim that the Uk is a rubbish country to live in which is what your making it out to be is very unfair. Only some parts of America are modern,some are just too behind the times to even care.

Hi Redmagic,

As per always, individual reports and findings and experiences will vary and often do!

There are many things the NHS does very very well, quite a few of my relatives and friends here who work as Doctors and specialists in the NHS are very proud to do so. You are correct, no one countrie's heathcare system is perfect, that's impossible to achieve, however, to get some sort of comparison, there's quite a few resources which show things like success and failure rates of various medical ailments, treatment availability etc etc. they then offer some sort of way to compare results and how the systems operate etc. Granted, there's less people in the UK who are bankrupted as a result of needing medical attention, there's also a significant amount of people who also unfortunately don't live out long enough due to medical knowledge not being as good as other countries. Waiting times and red tape is a bug bear of the NHS. I was talking to a good friend of mine just 3 days ago, who's father has been diagnosed with cancer for the 2nd time. He's in Spain, and the speed at which he was seen once the doctor suspected something was excellent - it was within 2 days. In the UK, there'd have been (usually) at least a couple months of waiting times to see a specialist etc. I know this isn't representative of the complete systems between the UK and USA and other countries but is a major part of the NHS and it's issues that it has. I'll disagree in that I'm making out the UK is a rubbish country to live. It isn't, it's part of the G8/G20 top nations in the world. I have relatives in Detroit, they're in the West Bloomfield and Bloomfield Hills area - which is affluent. I've been to and visited many places in the US which are not affluent as well, I've visited hospitals in those areas too and I know, just like in any other country, there are parts which aren't well off or deprived and for those living there, it's not pleasant at all - we have exactly the same sort of thing in the UK and so do many other countries. When I then compare to some of the poverty I see when I go back home to India, it helps put things in perspective a little more.

As ever, I'm not looking to post negatively or dismiss any viewpoints, to me, all are welcome at the table for discussion

Cheers, DtM! West London & Slough UK!

Some things I think are overlooked if one hasn't actually lived in the US. 

1)  Knowing people who have delayed health care due to high deductibles or co-pays.  Thus getting themselves into a bad situation when the ball finally drops.

2)  Knowing people who have depleted their savings due to these costs.

3)  Knowing people who have lost a job, subsequently losing their health cover.  And a serious illness then overcoming them before they find another job.

4)  Knowing someone who has lost a job through no fault of their own (downsizing of the company, etc.) and was offered COBRA coverage by the employer so they won't be without insurance while they look for work.  Only to find out that the COBRA costs about $900 a month.  Or more if you have kids.

5)  Knowing people who have insurance that is inadequate.  For instance it won't cover the cost of a medication they need everyday to breathe.

6)  Knowing people who have taken a medical bankruptcy.

7)  Knowing people who lost their homes because they lost their jobs and the unemployment ran out. 

  Knowing university graduates who came out at the top of their class who can't find work.

9)  Knowing that your health insurance only costs you - say $100 per paycheck - but realizing that when annual open enrollment comes around, it will cost you $200 AND afford you less protection.

10)  Knowing people with only two weeks of holiday time per year who have been on their jobs 10 years or more.

11)  Knowing pensioners who chose between food and medication.  There are lots of them.

12)  Knowing people who work two jobs - one that provides healthcare and a second to earn enough money for gasoline to get to that job.  They've got to keep a car running because there is no public transport where they live.

The US economy may recover before the economy in the UK.  But it takes a very long time for that recovery to trickle down to the people in my examples.  And they are legion in the US.

I understand the 'grass is always greener' feeling, but what I don't always understand is the moving back & forth thing that some folks do - unless it's being driven by job opportunities (with sweet relocation packages) or a family situation (elderly parents, grandchildren, etc).  Surely you end up losing a lot financially by making (and paying for) successive international moves?  I'm glad I only had to do it once (so far)!

Being someone who has relocated internationally 4 times now in 8 years (once for love, 3 for career) I can attest that it is quite expensive, even if you have a relocation package. I've not yet had a relocation package that truly and realistically covers actual need.

I find the moves to be exhausting and stressful, however it is what it is. We follow the work, whether it's greener there or not. I would definitely not move without employment for at least one partner secured first. So think about that as well, D_A_D, when you are thinking about your future location. Take a look at the job market while you are here. Maybe take a couple meetings. The reality might surprise you.

And re the missing important people, I can also say from personal experience that people change. Relationships change. You and your family have embarked on this adventure together that no one outside your immediate circle will ever understand; not even us as we deign to give you advice! I first relocated to the UK in 2004, and then came back to LA for work with my partner. Though only 3.5 years had gone by, everything was so different, it was palpable. I have not retained any friendships from the pre 2004 years. We've all just moved on, some of us further than others.

Oddly enough, those who became my important people in the UK have stuck with me through all my subsequent moves. But that's because they are super awesome and understand the crazy life me and Mr Ukdels have decided to lead.

We are hoping that in the next few years we finally find what it is we are looking for in both career and location. I'm thinking it includes a small holding and some greener grass.

rebeccajo

Another addition to your list:
Knowing women who are forced to stay in rather abusive relationships because they have serious health problems, and if they leave their partner, they will no longer have health insurance, for themselves, or their children.

Insurance companies can deny coverage for someone ill, and they do, so, even if one has the funds... no one will accept them.

THAT is also happening in America.

I know of more than one woman who is living in what basically amounts to a hostage situation because they need access to medications in order to stay alive, and if they leave their partner, unless they land a job with coverage, they will no longer be able to be treated for their illnesses.

I've also known people in the UK who have had to sell their houses and uproot their families because their local PCT won't fund a life altering treatment, but another PCT will.  Meaning the kids need a new school, they can't afford a house in the new are and the father now has a two 1/2 hour commute.

People who have sold everything to get a treatment for their child in another country because the NHS hasn't approved the treatment.  Sadly, by the time they raised the money it was too late. 

I certainly know people who have lost their houses.  In the US, depending on your state, if you declare bankruptcy your house is protected.  Not so in the UK.

I know PLENTY of people here who can't find jobs after graduating.

I know pensioners who choose between food and heat, which if they had the same ability to buy oil the way my parents do in the US wouldn't have this issue.

Since my husband is from a rural area there is only a school bus.  Not everyone has access to good public transport in the UK and not everyone in the US doesn't.

That's exactly it bookgrl - no matter where you are, there will be something that hasn't gone right for someone. 

There are pros and cons to both countries and it has to be the best decision for a particular family as to where they live.  And to be lucky enough for a family to have that choice.  How many times do people come on here wanting to live in the UK or vice versa and realise oh, a work visa, oh that's impossible....