On being in a religious country

The more I talk to my British husband about this, the more insane I feel, so here I come a-posting.

A dynamic that confuses me, having come from a fairly fundamentalist christian country with official separation of church and state, is the blase relationship that most British seem to have with religion while christianity infuses itself into public life.  OK, here's my mental journey:

1.  I learn about the kids' primary school and there's mention of a school minister.  I don't think much of it because they insist religious education is very broad and emcompasses the major world religions, and I'm used to the idea of jails having chaplains, so yeah, no big deal.

2.  The kids have a harvest service and come home talking fairly ambiguously about stories that sound suspciciously old testament in nature.  I mentally quirk an eyebrow.

3.  The holiday season comes up and my brain starts to be overloaded: the christmas play is the nativity story!  Cute, yes, but, but...someone call the ACLU!   The kids come home singing hymns about loving god.  There is a service at the *church* next week.

Now this is where I start overreacting and my husband becomes puzzled.  It's just so bizarre to have come from a country where all of the above would be illegal in a public school to a fairly secular country that nevertheless is so christian in its institutions.  I'm trying to see it as them continuing with cultural traditions that they have every right to, having had them for so long.  But it's very difficult for me to, as a hardcore agnostic, to have to continually remind my kids of the world's other faith and philosophical traditions.

So my questions:

Am I insane to even care/be worried?  Fearing this is the case, I've not brought up my concerns to their teachers.  Besides, if I have the right to take them out of those activities, I don't think I'd do so, because they enjoy them so much and they're already different enough from everyone else without being made to stand out more.

Does anyone else have these concerns and how are they dealt with?

I think this whole affair has been my most striking experience of culture shock thus far..lol.

Thanks for your help.

You're not crazy: it's just that the UK isn't very always attuned to the implications of being a multicultural country. I've tried unsuccessfully for years to get my workplace to start calling it a "holiday party" rather than a Christmas party. But you can speak to the school about your concerns, which they should be concerned about as well. If that doesn't work, then bring it up with the Local Education Authority (LEA), since this is a matter of "institutional racism."

I think this is why I never did find 'holiday' cards, or Hannakah, Kwanzaa...only Christmas.

There are over 50k home educators in the UK, numbers are growing.  Not very close to the 2m homeschoolers in the US, but still.  That is how some people deal with it.

I cannot believe that the nativity scene is the thing in schools here.  It amazes me because of the bias.

Still keeping fingers crossed that EU constitution stays secular.  Maybe that will help.

I am not surprised you're confused. It's true in the schools here you learn hymns and say prayers and blah blah blah.  At my school they had a Catholic priest come in once a week for the Catholics and Muslim pupils were allowed time off to go to their  religious festivals so at least it was inclusive I suppose. Religious education is supposed to teac habout various faiths though, it's not meant to be a bible reading. This is state schools I'm talking about, by thw way. Private schools are different.

Growing up like that and learning the hymns didn't stop me being an atheist though so I wouldn't worry too much Elly-ah about your kids being indoctrinated, they will learn first and foremost in the home.  My parents did ask me if I wanted to be taken out of school assembly etc when I was about 12 and I chose to stay because I didn't want to appear too "different." Anyway it is quite funny nowadays, I am married to a Christian and yet I know more about hte Bible and the words to hymns than he does!

I'm surprised that anyone considers the UK a religious country,I would say most people just pay lip service,and very few allow it to influence their lives.

Dave

I think you're right. In many ways, it's the most secular place in the West. But it, nonetheless, is highly annoying for non-Christians to have to experience all the X-ian stuff, which is alienating by repetition.

I used to feel very  much the same way you do.  It threw me a bit when DD would come home and talk about what she'd learned at school that day, and Jesus was part of the curriculum.  It didn't bother me, but it was something that I needed to get used to.

My classroom is right next to the R.E. classroom, and so I chat with the Head of R.E. quite a bit, particularly about lessons (If she's having a noisy discussion group in the next room, I don't want her to do it when I'm teaching at GCSE class!).  At secondary level, R.E. is more the "mechanics" of religion, i.e., this is why Christians wear crosses, this is why there are 8 candles on a menorah, these are the five noble truths.  There's no "our god is better than your god" rubbish.  At primary level, kids can't cope with that sort of thing, so it's "nativity" at Christmas, as much as it's candles during Diwali and trying traditional foods at Hannukah.  It's mechanics on a more simplistic level.

Now that I've said that *puts on Devil's advocate hat*

In my opinion, it's not fair to call the U.K. a "religious country".  I'm not going to make any sweeping generalisations, but I am going to say that the majority of people I know are not religious - and this is after having been "exposed" to religious education for 12 (formative) years.  It's not fair because currently the United States is  being led by a man who openly uses his religion to dictate policy.  So much for separation of church and state.  

*takes off Devil's advocate hat*

I'm surprised that anyone considers the UK a religious country,I would say most people just pay lip service,and very few allow it to influence their lives.

Dave

True but I always found it bizarre that we had prayers and hymns every day at school.

True but I always found it bizarre that we had prayers and hymns every day at school.

Agreed,but don't you think that certain subjects are taught without any real conviction?,eg French,we all did it at school but how many people are fluent?,PE or whatever they call it nowadays,we did it but how many world class athletes do we produce.Anyway what do I know,if memory serves I had to leave school when I was about 12 to get a job LOL.

Dave

Yes Daver I do agree but it is a more sensitive issue when it comes to religion because it is more pervasive. As Elly-ah has pointed out it isn't just a question of  RE classes, it is daily or weekly prayers and special events like Nativity Plays and the Harvest Festival - which perpetuates the notion that we are all of the same religion.   I can understand Elly-Ah's concerns.

I know it seems weird, but I have to say that my kids also come home from school knowing all about Diwali and Hannakka and Chinese New Year.  And I'd hate to see the Nativity play go.  It's such a tradition.  And since Church and State aren't seperate I guess there an argument for keeping it.  My kids all went through a semi-religious phase around seven, but it didn't last very long.  It's not really something that bothers me, because I honestly don't feel as if they're trying to indoctrinate my children. 

Yes Daver I do agree but it is a more sensitive issue when it comes to religion because it is more pervasive

More pervasive than French? LOL,I think its only pervasive if you take it seriously,at the local school where a large proportion of the pupils are Indian or Pakistani they decided to do away with the nativity play,there was an uproar.It seemed strange to see all the mothers in their sari's and fathers in turbans demanding it goes ahead,and it is.
And please call me Dave,Daver seems so formal LOL.

Dave

I only meant religion was more pervasive in schools (than, eg French) because as well as RE classes  there is also assembly and all those added extras, whereas other subjects tend to get left in the classroom.  Of course I am talking about my own school experience, other schools may be different and of course it was a few years ago now, ahem.

Anyhow, I like your story about the nativity play at the local school - it just goes to show!

Yes, there's nothing like the power of cute..rant and rave as I did at home, I was the one elbowing her husband the most to catch photos of various kid cuteness on the stage.  The play itself, called 'the very hopeless camel,' seemed almost cheeky itself.

I'm not sure what I would call the UK as far as religion is concerned.  I guess I'd go with 'nominalism,' since there is that official religion and the ritualism is such an important part of cultural life, but as for the average UK person I think I'd agree that they don't seem quite so imbued with that evangelical spirit as my fellow americans.  I've certainly never had someone from Church of Scotland try to convert me or otherwise save my soul..lol.

I am *very* happy to hear all of your perspectives.

but as for the average UK person I think I'd agree that they don't seem quite so imbued with that evangelical spirit as my fellow americans.

Now you're getting it,apart from football which some people find important,all most people care passionately about is the weather.

Dave