Proposed Civil or Marriage??

Hi everyone,
Just joined and as I'm currently working on my application my partner and I had a question:

Proposed Civil Partnership visa or just get married and apply that way?
My partner and I had discussed that we would get married now, in the US, if we were forced. We just wanted to take our time and have a fun proposal and all. Anyone have experience with getting denied proposed civil and then having to get married???
Thanks
Chris

Welcome to the forum .

The requirements for a Proposed Civil Partnership (PCP)/Marriage visa and a Civil Partnership (CP)/Spousal visa are exactly the same, except for one, you show you are planning a wedding and the other you show you are already married.

[Note that a 'marriage' visa is a fiance visa... which is the same as a proposed civil partnership visa. So your options are either Marriage/PCP visa or Spousal/CP visa]

It's really up to you which visa you apply for, but it is much, much faster, easier and cheaper to marry in the US first and apply for a civil partner/spousal visa than it is to get a fiance/PCP visa and marry in the UK.

For a start, it'll save you at least £1,000 in visa fees, and also marrying in the US means the visa holder will be able to work immediately in the UK and use the NHS for 'free' from day one... neither of which is possible on a proposed civil partnership/fiance visa.

Also, you can marry in the US without a visa (the UK citizen just travels visa-free on the ESTA) and you only have to wait maybe 24-48 hours after arriving before you can marry... so you could potentially do it in a long weekend.

To marry in the UK though, you have to apply for a visa, then be resident for 7 days before you can give notice to marry (in England and Wales... Scotland doesn't have the 7-day residency period), and then you have to wait a further 28 days after that before you can actually marry. If you have a visa though, this may be extended to 70 days.

Thanks for the help!!

We generally recommend to go the spouse/CP visa route unless you have your heart dead-set on marrying in the UK.

With a fiance(e)/PCP visa:  The visa is valid for 6 months.  You must marry in the UK and switch to what is essentially a spouse/CP visa - called FLR(M) - within those 6 months to allow you to extend your stay in the UK.  Until you have been granted FLR(M), while on a fiance(e)/PCP visa you cannot work (paid, unpaid, volunteer, remotely for a US company, etc.) or access the NHS free at the point of service.  You must pay for all non-emergency NHS treatment received and/or have an insurance plan that covers you in the UK. 

In regards to visa costs, you'll have to pay:

- fiance(e)/PCP visa application fee (and optional additional fee for faster application processing)
- FLR(M) visa application fee (and optional additional fee for a priority service) AND
- IHS fee (to allow NHS access free at the point of service)

That's essentially two visa application fees and potentially two optional priority processing fees.

Getting married first and then applying for a spouse/CP visa:  This visa is valid for 33 months, and it allows immediate work and NHS use upon arrival to the UK.  For all intents and purposes, it is the same as FLR(M), but it is applied for outside the UK instead of inside.  You don't need to apply for another visa until after you've lived in the UK for 2.5 years.

In regard to visa costs, you'll have to pay:

- Spouse/CP visa application fee (and optional additional fee for priority processing) AND
- IHS fee

In comparison to going the fiance(e)/PCP route, this is only one visa application fee.

The overall route to permanent residency (ILR) and UK citizenship would be for both routes:

Fiance(e)/PCP visa > FLR(M) > FLR(M) > ILR > Citizenship
6 months > 2.5 years > 2.5 years > Indefinite so long as you continue to reside in the UK > Truly indefinite

Spouse visa > FLR(M) > ILR >  Citizenship
33 months > 2.5 years > Indefinite so long as you continue to reside in the UK > Truly indefinite

In regards to a refused visa, if a fiance(e)/PCP visa is refused, the spouse/CP visa will likely be refused as well.  The requirements for both visas are virtually the same; the main difference is that for a fiance(e)/PCP visa, you need to show evidence you will marry within 6 months of arriving in the UK.  For a spouse/CP visa, you need to show evidence that you are married.  If a fiance(e)/PCP visa is refused due to the financial requirement not being met, getting married and applying for a spouse/CP visa will result in the same refusal if the financial situation is the same. 

Thank you for the info!
I guess I should've been more clear that there shouldn't be an issue with the financial requirement. My partner's current salary is more than what is required, 18,600/12 months, I believe?

Sorry, I should have been clearer myself as well.  I wasn't specifically referring to the financial requirement - just an example that because the requirements are 99% the same for both visas, if one visa is refused, the other visa will also likely be refused for the same reason.  It wouldn't make a difference if you were married or not as practically the same evidence would need to be submitted for either the fiance(e)/PCP or spouse/CP visas. 

In short, if you were refused a fiance(e)/PCP visa, getting married and applying for a spouse/CP visa wouldn't make things any easier due to needing to meet practically the same requirements.

Understood. Thanks Aquila.
On a side note, I’m using my partner as my sponsor but he just moved over last week and doesn’t not have a national insurance number yet, even though he is a citizen (he’s dual US/UK) and his permanent address is currently a friend’s flat.
Both of these items are on the sponsorship form that I need to send in. Think they can be amended after I send my info in? Or is this going to be a WHOLE other issue??
Thanks,
Chris

Understood. Thanks Aquila.
On a side note, I’m using my partner as my sponsor but he just moved over last week and doesn’t not have a national insurance number yet, even though he is a citizen (he’s dual US/UK) and his permanent address is currently a friend’s flat.
Both of these items are on the sponsorship form that I need to send in. Think they can be amended after I send my info in? Or is this going to be a WHOLE other issue??
Thanks,
Chris

It’s not an issue. You just leave it blank on the form if he doesn’t have it yet when you apply.

You cannot add or amend anything after you have submitted the application, however, it only takes a few weeks to get a National Insurance  Number and it may well be that he gets it before you even apply for the visa.

There’s quite a lot of document preparation and gathering, not to mention checking and double-checking of documents to do before you apply, so I would allow several weeks to get ready to apply, especially if you decide to get married first (as you can’t apply until after you are married(.

Also, you should not submit the online application until you are completely ready to mail all your documents to UKVI and they are all in your hands, ready to go. This includes the financial documents, accommodation evidence (from his friend, assuming you will live there with him), and your relationship documents (and evidence of planning a wedding in the U.K. if you decide to marry in the U.K.).

The documents you must provide are very specific and must meet the formatting requirements exactly, so it’s important to research them thoroughly and prepare them all before you apply.

Since he has just moved, I assume you will be meeting Category B of the financial requirement... does your sponsor have a U.K. job paying £18,600 yet? If not, he will need to secure a job first before you can apply for the visa, and will need to gather documents from his employer, and any payslips or bank statements he has received by the time you apply.

For Category B he will need to provide:
- 12 full months of original payslips showing a total of £18,600 or more before tax
- 12 full months of original bank statements showing the deposit of every single payslip
- a letter from his U.K. employer stating he has a job paying at least £18,600 per year
- his original U.K. job contract



Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Thanks Ksand24!!
Yes we are applying category B. He has a contract for his job that starts October 15th, and will definitely be above the 18,600. He also has pay stubs available and i’m Sure he can access his bank statements as well. The document from the U.K. visa site mentioned only 6 months of pay stubs, think we’ll need more??

As far as application goes, i’ve already submitted it. We’ve been in the process of me applying for about a month now, we just didn’t realize he would need so much time for his documentation.... That, and to sign up for the biometric processing in Boston requires sign up of at least a week.

As far as relationship documents, i’m not really sure what to include with that. Are some pictures and text messages ok? There’s no clear answer to what they’re looking for...

Also, is there more housing documentation evidence required than what’s on the application?? None of my e-mails have mentioned anything like that.

Thanks for your help again. I just feel like this process is extremely messy and vague.
Chris

Thanks Ksand24!!
Yes we are applying category B. He has a contract for his job that starts October 15th, and will definitely be above the 18,600. He also has pay stubs available and i’m Sure he can access his bank statements as well. The document from the U.K. visa site mentioned only 6 months of pay stubs, think we’ll need more??

For Category B, you must submit 12 full months of both payslips and bank statements, because you have to show total earnings from the last 12 months. You must cover the entire 12 months and not a day less... this may mean including 13 months of both to make sure every single day is covered.

As far as application goes, i’ve already submitted it. We’ve been in the process of me applying for about a month now, we just didn’t realize he would need so much time for his documentation.... That, and to sign up for the biometric processing in Boston requires sign up of at least a week.

You haven’t attended biometrics yet have you? You only have 5 days from the biometrics appointment to mail all your documents to New York, but most of the documents will need to be mailed to you from your partner in the UK.

If you have not attended biometrics yet, and you do not have every single document in your hands (relationship, accommodation and financial documents) and ready to mail right now, I would recommend cancelling your application and applying for a refund. You cannot get a refund though if you have already attended biometrics. It can take a few weeks to receive the refund.

Also, which visa have you applied for? The fiancé/PCP visa or the spousal/CP visa?

If you are going to marry in the US, cannot submit the online application until after you are actually married, as the date you submit and pay for it is your official application date and you must be married at that time.

As far as relationship documents, i’m not really sure what to include with that. Are some pictures and text messages ok? There’s no clear answer to what they’re looking for...

You must include:
- 1-2 photos of the two of you together
- all boarding passes/e-tickets from trips to see each other
- any original letters/cards sent to each other
- evidence of correspondence covering the entire length of your relationship in the form of screenshots from the different means of communication (phone calls, email inbox, messages etc.). You should include no more than 2-3 pages max of screenshots of each type of communication. No message content should be included, just lists of dates/times/names/subject lines...
So just select maybe 50-60 calls/messages/emails from the length of the relationship, paste into Word, crop out all message content and then print.

Also, is there more housing documentation evidence required than what’s on the application?? None of my e-mails have mentioned anything like that.

If you are going to be living with a friend/family member and they own their home, you must include:
- a wet signature letter of permission from the homeowner for you both to live there, including property details and stating it will not be overcrowded
- their Land Registry document
Optional:
- their latest original mortgage statement

Thanks for your help again. I just feel like this process is extremely messy and vague.
Chris

Stick with us and we’ll guide you through it . All of this is on the UKVI website, but it’s in various locations and can be confusing.

If you have submitted your online application and have NOT attended biometrics, I would strongly recommend cancelling the application, applying for a refund and reapplying when you are actually ready, with all your documents to go.

Most of the documents will likely need to come from your partner in the UK, who will need to courier them to you.

My general list of documents needed for the visa, assuming you are going for the PCP/fiancé visa, is:

Applicant (US citizen)
- Receipt for priority processing (if paying for priority)
- return shipping label
- Optional cover letter
- Printed online application form (don't submit until you have all the documents in your hands and are completely ready to mail the application package)
- Completed VAF4a Appendix 2 form
- Stamped Biometrics Confirmation Sheet (when you have attended the biometrics appointment)
- 1 passport photo (they can be US or UK size)
- US passport
- All previous passports
 
Sponsor (UK citizen)
- Copy of UK passport photo page (photocopy usually okay, but can be certified by a UK Post Office for about £10)
- wet signature sponsor letter of support for the visa, outlining how you meet each requirement of the visa (UK citizenship, finances, accommodation and relationship)

Finances
Category B:
- 12 months of original payslips showing earnings of at least £18,600 before tax... if not original, must be accompanied a letter of authenticity from the employer. Latest payslip must be dated no more than 28 days before the online application date
- 12 months of original bank statements showing the deposit of every payslip. If printed from online, must be either stamped on EVERY page by the bank, or accompanied by a letter of authenticity from the bank. Latest bank statement must be dated no more than 28 days before you apply online.
- original letter from current employer, dated no more than 28 days before applying online, and stating ALL of the following:
i) current employment and salary
ii) length of employment
iii) length of time earning current salary
iv) type of employment
- original job contract

Accommodation
- letter of permission from the homeowner
- homeowner’s Land Registry Document (can be downloaded from the Land Registry website for £3)
Optional:
- homeowner’s latest original mortgage statement

Relationship evidence
- 1 or 2 photos of you together
- boarding passes from trips to see each other
- any physical letters and cards sent to each other
- 1-3 pages of screenshots of each type of communication logs (calls/messages/emails etc.)

Evidence of plans to marry in the UK
- email chain from registry office/ceremony location enquiring about possible dates, or confirming a provisional booking
- anything else you gave, such as receipts/pictures of the rings, outfits etc.

Photocopies of all documents you wish to be returned


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

I would really encourage you to cancel the application before attending biometrics and sort everything through.  A visa is NOT something to be rushed.  What is on the line is too great to make a simple mistake. 

Definitely echo the advice to cancel the application and ask for a refund if you haven't attended biometrics yet.  Especially if you are still deciding if you'll be married in the US or UK, as that will dictate which application you'll be completing.

The application (for both visa types) is a strict "ticking boxes" exercise.  If all the boxes can't be ticked (for example, one bank statement is missing, or the sponser letter is missing), the visa will be refused. 

We had one applicant refused due to not providing sufficient evidence of the relationship - despite being married for something like a decade and having children together.  But because the proper documentary evidence wasn't submitted, that specific tick box couldn't be checked, and the visa was refused.

The documentation may seem like a beast at first glance, but with a little patience, it's easily digestible and broken down.  (though we certainly know it's difficult to have patience when you just want to move to be with your partner!)

Thank you all.

I’m going to cancel it right now. Seems we may have gotten in a bit over our heads at this time.

I’m also very confused because when I called the contact line, the woman on the phone told me my partner would send all his documents straight to Sheffield and NOT to me.

I will keep you all updated as we progress but I really appreciate everyone’s help!!
Sincerely,
Chris (and Rex) 🙂

I’m also very confused because when I called the contact line, the woman on the phone told me my partner would send all his documents straight to Sheffield and NOT to me.

NEVER call that line... it is completely useless and is known for giving very bad advice and incorrect information... including telling people to apply for visas they do not qualify for! We have seen people lose thousands of pounds in visa fees because they have followed the bad advice given by the call line (who are third party call centre who don't have access to much information).

The advice they gave you does not apply to US applications. It may be correct for other countries, but not for the US. If you are applying in the US, ALL documents must be sent in the same package, by the US applicant.

As of about 2-3 weeks ago, a new system was brought in for US applications, and now you have to send your documents to New York, not Sheffield. They will still be processed in Sheffield, but New York will scan them and forward them to Sheffield on your behalf.

See here for how to apply in the US:
https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/usa-apply-for-a-uk-visa/apply-for-a-uk-visa-in-the-usa

Oh, also, when you do apply online again, and you book your biometrics appointment, you MUST make sure you book it at a USCIS Application Support Center and NOT the VFS Premium Centre in Boston.

You can only use the Boston VFS centre if you are paying for the $1900 Premium Service (which is a complete waste of money and we don't recommend using it).

Also, I would be surprised if it takes a week to sign up for biometrics. Most people get an appointments within 1-3 days and you can always try a different biometrics office if the one you want has no appointments when you want one. Once you have booked an appointment, you can also try for an earlier walk-in, so you could book it for say, Friday, but show up on Tuesday and ask to have them done there and then.

From looking at the USCIS ASC office locator, it does not appear that you can give biometrics in Boston itself.

The biometrics locations in the Massachusetts area are as follows:

East Hartford, CT.
The address is: USCIS Application Support Center 265 Ellington Road, Suite E East Hartford, CT 06108

Latham, NY.
The address is: USCIS Application Support Center 1086 Troy-Schenectady Road Latham, NY 12110-1024.

Lawrence, MA.
The address is: USCIS Application Support Center 2 Mill Street Lawrence, MA 01840

Providence, RI.
The address is: USCIS Application Support Center Crossroads Office Park, 105 Sockanosset Cross Road, Suite 210
Cranston, RI 02920-5560.

Revere, MA.
The address is: USCIS Application Support Center 7F Everett Street Revere, MA 02151

See here for all the locations in the US (there are 129 ASCs you can book biometrics at) : https://egov.uscis.gov/crisgwi/go?action=offices.type&OfficeLocator.office_type=ASC