Sooo, they have a tentative Brexit agreement?

...The 1922 Committee is run by a well respected group of people

Hee haw   

The Tory 1922 Committee is run by Tories who have other Tories by the short and curlies.

I think Michael Gove would make a great librarian.

I think Michael Gove would make a great librarian.

Oook? 

I'll admit to not knowing that much about the internal structure of the EU, but how are the leaders of the EU unelected?  Did Nigel Farage volunteer? 

I'll admit to not knowing that much about the internal structure of the EU, but how are the leaders of the EU unelected?  Did Nigel Farage volunteer?

MEPs are elected, but have little power.

Commissioners are elected, but only by the Council (the Member States).

https://europa.eu/european-union/about-eu/institutions-bodies_en

MEPs are elected, but have little power.

Commissioners are elected, but only by the Council (the Member States).

https://europa.eu/european-union/about-eu/institutions-bodies_en

From that post, I see MEPs are elected and commisioners are elected.  So why do I always hear Brexiters moaning that they are unelected? 

From that post, I see MEPs are elected and commisioners are elected.  So why do I always hear Brexiters moaning that they are unelected?

They’re referring to the Commission, where the power rests.

Commissioners are elected, but not by general suffrage.  Only by the Council.  Appointed, basically.

Link to a Politico article discussing the complicated ins and outs of getting a new President in place:

https://www.politico.eu/article/european-commission-presidency-race-contenders-barnier-lagarde-vestager-juncker-macron/

The border between the Republic and NI is entire 'nuther kettle of fish. A transparent border is one of the things that has kept the peace since the Good Friday agreement. That place is a tinderbox. Great care needs to be taken to remember that a large percentage of the people there consider the UK to be an occupying force. 

There are more Irish on Great Britain than on the Island of Ireland.

During "the Troubles", the powers that be were wondering whether to make NI a Protestant only country to keep them safe from being murdered because of their religion and there are always interesting debates on the forums. Some of those from NI saying their heart may say make Ireland one country, but their head says that staying 2% of a rich country is better than becoming 50% of a poor country.

I'll admit to not knowing that much about the internal structure of the EU, but how are the leaders of the EU unelected?  Did Nigel Farage volunteer? 

Farage is an MEP. MEPs are elected by the voters in their own country. That's how anti EU MEPs are voted in.

You know how in your country you all vote for your President? And if they aren't any good they get voted out? That's not how it works in the EU. We don't vote for the EU Presidents (there are more than one) and we can't get them out if they are doing a bad job. And they pay themselves more than your President would get paid and give themselves generous expenses.

Even if an EU country has a public vote on something, the EU President/s' ignore the result if is is not what they want. One of President Junker's quotes is "If it's a Yes, we will say 'on we go', and if it's a No we will say 'we continue'." The EU is a great place for those politicians who have failed in the their own country.

It's why they are getting annoyed that the polulist vote is on the rise in EU countries, as that is a threat to their power. At first they just said "we are listening" or "we will do better" to humour the little man/woman, but then did what they wanted to. Now they talk of how they must stop rise of the populist vote.

The border between the Republic and NI is entire 'nuther kettle of fish. A transparent border is one of the things that has kept the peace since the Good Friday agreement. That place is a tinderbox. Great care needs to be taken to remember that a large percentage of the people there consider the UK to be an occupying force. 

Not without cause.

Ireland and America were both colonised by Britain.  In America, the colonists rebelled and took control from the colonial power.  In Ireland, the Irish eventually regained their independence, but not until the early 20th century, and even then, Ulster was carved out and kept for the descendants of the colonists.

It’s not surprising (IMO) that Britain is still seen as an occupying power by those residents of Ulster who feel the whole island should be united and independent.

There are more Irish on Great Britain than on the Island of Ireland.

During "the Troubles", the powers that be were wondering whether to make NI a Protestant only country to keep them safe from being murdered because of their religion and there are always interesting debates on the forums. Some of those from NI saying their heart may say make Ireland one country, but their head says that staying 2% of a rich country is better than becoming 50% of a poor country.

There are probably more Irish in NYC than in the British Isles as a whole.

I do believe that a considerable amount of The Troubles were caused by the Protestant, culturally English/Scottish minority having been given significantly preferential treatment over the (indigenous) Catholic, culturally Irish majority.  To this day, the Prods are still trying to stir stuff up. (Note, I am not Catholic.)  Here in Glasgow the various Orange Orders insist on having their little "nya, nya -na nya nya" marches down the streets in front of Catholic Churches. This year a priest was spit on and otherwise assaulted by the Oranges during one of their marches, and when permission for a subsequent march along the same route was denied, they threw a fit about their rights being trampled on. 

I'm always amazed that they allow those marches. It's like having a Klan march through Newark (NJ), in some places.

They’re referring to the Commission, where the power rests.

Commissioners are elected, but not by general suffrage.  Only by the Council.  Appointed, basically.

Link to a Politico article discussing the complicated ins and outs of getting a new President in place:

https://www.politico.eu/article/european-commission-presidency-race-contenders-barnier-lagarde-vestager-juncker-macron/

So the MEPs are elected, and the commisioners are elected from amongst them?  Or are the commisioners just random people who have never had anyone vote for them?

So Gove/Fox leafing a group of 5 inside the cabinet demanding changes.

Merkel and others saying absolutely zero chance of any change, this is best & final.

Assuming no changes can be had, presumably Gove/Fox throw weight behind a challenge.

Unclear there are the votes to depose the PM, might be close, might not, but it’d be a show of force that would remove her practical authority to lead (whatever exist of it). If they don’t have the votes, then she’s protected from another leadership challenge for a year. But her authority is also gutted and would be heavy pressure to resign.

If she survives all that, the EU will vote later in the month. Then it’d come back to the UK.

It doesn’t appear there are the votes in parliament for passage. If the whip count says there are, it seems like DUP is prepared to pull the rug out from under the govt majority and force an election.

I’m not really clear what would happen at that point.

Seemingly the clock would run out without even a vote to approve a deal.

I don’t know if the lame duck PM or an interim could quickly jam together an extension.

I don’t know if labor would take the reigns. That’s certainly Corbyn’s dream scenario. Or what they’d do with Brexit at that late hour other than have an up or down vote.

There effectively is no way to reverse Brexit. It is happening and all the capital on both sides of the channel and both sides of the ocean have already priced that in. A surprise reversal would be the financial crisis all over again. There is the narrowest of possibilities the process to rejoin and leverage for reform could happen after that, depending who is in charge by then.

More likely it looks to be moving towards a blind exit one way or another.

My personal position is in favor of that because it gives the UK the maximum flexibility to control & adapt their own policy when they’re negotiating with the rest of the world who will demand concessions & deliver massive economic opportunities in return.

My position is a trade deal with the EU is the 12th or 15th they should negotiate. Not until the UK is set, doesn’t need the EU at all, only then go to the table. If I’d been in charge, I would have been backdoor negotiating agreements in principle with other countries (the US, China, commonwealth countries) that can be finalized and adopted immediately after exit. I would have been sitting across from the EU saying passporting? This paper says we can passport to America. Free movement? This agreement on immigration says US & UK citizens are entitled to a work visa if they clear a basic background check but won’t be eligible for public assistance. That’s how you negotiate. You don’t go to a table where they think you need them to survive and think you’re getting out of there with what you want. You flip the script with competition for your business and sit back aloof waiting for them to move to your positions. Then you can consider compromises with open eyes to the cost benefit of what the EU wants & has to offer on an issue versus what the rest of the world has. But... I’m not in charge. I wouldn’t want to be either, but it’s frustrating to see the incompetence with which this was handled.

Anyway... the entertainment goes on. Or train wreck continuing to crash. Whichever you prefer.


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So the MEPs are elected, and the commisioners are elected from amongst them?

No.  The MEPs are elected to the Parliament.  They do take part in the elections - the President of the Commission has to be acceptable to a majority - but the candidates for President of the Commission are put forward by the Council. 

Or are the commisioners just random people who have never had anyone vote for them?

Far from random.  All Member States are equal, but some are more equal than others.  Particularly France and Germany of course.

The EC is not democratically elected, is the long and the short of it.   EU citizens do not elect the people who run the EU.

No.  The MEPs are elected to the Parliament.  They do take part in the elections - the President of the Commission has to be acceptable to a majority - but the candidates for President of the Commission are put forward by the Council. 

Far from random.  All Member States are equal, but some are more equal than others.  Particularly France and Germany of course.

The EC is not democratically elected, is the long and the short of it.   EU citizens do not elect the people who run the EU.

And the civil service exercises more power than the commission. ...it’s all the complaints  in the US about an imperial presidency in the last 3+ admins, weak congress that delegates everything & rubber stamps too much of what the president hands them, deep state... it’s literally all of that on steroids. Plus no federal constitution to have effective checks and balances at the bloc level or between the bloc & subordinate states.

Basically the greatest constitutional deviations from how the US framers intended our govt to work, plus a whole lot of articles of confederation problems.

Then there’s where is it going with the ever greater alignment & centralization? Just Wikipedia “United States of Europe” and read that lengthy entry. Before you start thinking that’s a fringe conspiracy theory, look who the proponent authors are from present back to founding of the EU.

I encourage you to read some of those works. And then to compare and contrast what you see happening now in the EU. Form your own opinions.


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