Etiquette

All that switching back and forth! What for?!?

Because it's the way Americans do it.  Actually, since it involves more steps, some people (Miss Manners among them) consider it a more elegant way.  There was a discussion of this in one of her books; would you like me to copy it out for you?

And I've seen lots of Americans cut meat (or anything cuttable) in a weird way. They sort of hold their fork in a fist in their left hand and saw away with the knife in the other hand. It's not a pretty thing. I'm not saying all Americans do it, but many do. And I've never seen anyone in the UK eat that way.

Probably you haven't seen anyone in the UK do it because it's not the way it's done in the UK.  Although holding the fork in your fist is not technically how it's done in the US either. 

Yes, it is a no-no. You are meant to break off 1-2 bite pieces and butter them as you eat them. If your pieces are larger than one bite, eat them in two quick bites without setting the piece back down. No one at the table wants to see food put back on your plate after you have taken a bite out of it.

I knew this, but only because our English teacher went off on a crazy rant about it when we were sophomores in high school and it's always stuck with me.  Why she thought it was important to stress this so emphatically to a bunch of 15 year old country kids I'll never know.     It just always seemed like there were probably more important life lessons to pass on.   I've always wondered though if anyone else took it as seriously as I did.  I'm sure I'm breaking a million other rules of etiquette, but I DO break my bread up in small pieces. 

Because it's the way Americans do it.  Actually, since it involves more steps, some people (Miss Manners among them) consider it a more elegant way.  There was a discussion of this in one of her books; would you like me to copy it out for you?

No, that's OK. I believe you! It just seems like an awful lot of work! ... but then so do chopsticks to me, so who am I to judge? 

I've always been fascinated with etiquette.  My mom and I collect old etiquette books, especially from the 50's, and I just love reading about the proper ways a young couple should conduct themselves when they are dating or engaged.  It's all too funny!!!

~Liza

No, that's OK. I believe you! It just seems like an awful lot of work! ... but then so do chopsticks to me, so who am I to judge?

I know what you mean!  (And I didn't think you didn't believe me, I just thought you might think it was interesting!  )

I love etiquette books, from all periods-I have one from the 19th century on my Amazon wishlist and I am just waiting until the day I can buy it.

The American way is much the same, except that you then take the fork in your right hand (set the knife down first, please) and put it in your mouth tines up.

Okay, this must be regional! I was always taught to eat tines down (yes, putting down the knife first  )

Maybe it is because I stuck out my elbow too much when I tried to use the tines up .

But I have to say, ...Sprigged..., I visited your website and your dresses are exquisite! I'd learn to use all the right forks and spoons AND even cut my meat one bit at a time if I had an opportunity to wear one of your Jane Austen-y creations! Just lovely 

You are too kind, Jennydee! Thank you. 

Now, to figure out a way to cart a trunk of dresses to Britain...   

No, go on! This is fascinating!!

Well, prior to Queen Victoria, it was the tradition for royal brides to wear silver quite bedecked in diamonds and the like. Queen Victoria preferred somberness (even before Albert's death) and opted for simple white.

White had become quite popular surrounding the time of the French Revolution. At one time, women were seen as vixens, all descendants of Eve, and man's downfall. But at this time, women had taken on the innocent, childlike demeanor. In the thought of these times of revolution, it was very popular to return to classical ideals (Pompeii had been found somewhat recently). With this, women began to wear toga-esque dresses, with a high empire waist, made of a light cotton. Chemise dresses had been popular post this dramatic fashion cycle.

With royal tensions in France, the 1780's  brought in the popularity of the  more democratic  "peasent" dress, with democratic ideas also being felt from the infant nation of the United States. The change in society's view of women (that which I spoke of earlier) also championed the child-like, freer dress of this period, with, by far, the most popular colour being pure white.

Hence, Victoria's Choice of innocent, simple white. When she was married, extremely extravagant dress had not yet made it's big comeback, and she was nodding to those circumstances as well.

But when middle, upper-middle, and upper class Americans heard of the Queen's attire, they thought - now my daughter will be royal on her wedding day too! And so it began. Previous to this, all women, regardless of status, simply wore their Sunday best on their wedding day.

Since this happening in the late 1830's through the 1850's all sort of etiquette has sprung up about bridal wear. The funny thing is this - wouldn't it be a faux pas for a commoner to attempt to look royal?

For those of you intrigued by etiquette, I recommend "The Mirror of Graces". I think it was published in 1811, and it is fascinating to see how society has changed! The author speaks of how improper it is to 'dress above one's station, for merchant's daughters are being confused with duchesses!' (paraphrase)

Some pictures:

A "peasent" or "chemise" dress of the 1780's:

http://maisonelegance.bizland.com/1789_1.jpg

An later, and extremely roman dress, of the turn of the 19th century:

http://maisonelegance.bizland.com/5.jpg

And finally Queen Victoria can be seen here:

http://www.hrp.org.uk/webcode/content.asp?ID=405

Because it's the way Americans do it.  Actually, since it involves more steps, some people (Miss Manners among them) consider it a more elegant way.  There was a discussion of this in one of her books; would you like me to copy it out for you?

Probably you haven't seen anyone in the UK do it because it's not the way it's done in the UK.  Although holding the fork in your fist is not technically how it's done in the US either. 

To me, people who eat the British way seem like they are gobbling their food, because they never put their silverware down in between bites. I've also heard that the American way is better for losing weight, because you rest in between bites so give yourself a chance to tell if you feel full before taking the next bite.

I've always been fascinated with etiquette.  My mom and I collect old etiquette books, especially from the 50's, and I just love reading about the proper ways a young couple should conduct themselves when they are dating or engaged.  It's all too funny!!!

And advice for once you're married...

http://www.jimjr.com/wom53.htm

  And I don't even want to talk about the (non)use of napkins!!! 

~Liza

this is one of my HUGE pet  peeves  in England!!  No one  seems to give out napkins!!  are they  rationong??  so when we go to my in laws.. I have to  ask james to get me  a napkin.. it drives  me crazy!!  other homes I'll just  look for one.. there is always a kitchen roll handy.. 

I just can't get all fussed over 'the proper' way to eat, etc.  There are so many different 'proper' ways to eat the world over, not one 'right' way & so forth.  I'm kind of with Mindy on the idea that there are more important life lessons to be learned, etc.  Ok, I do draw the line on eating people, I guess...which it gives me fits of laughter when I go to our local pizza takeaway & see 'Donner kebabs', 'Donner meat', 'Donner' this & 'Donner' that on the menu & all I can think about is the Donner party.   (No I don't want any Donner meat -- thank you very much!)  Hee hee...one time I was waiting for a long time with my party to be seated at a restaurant in the US, the hostess kept calling out (for a party who had apparently been signed in ahead of us) -- 'Donner party for eight? Donner party for eight?' My group decided that the Donner party got so hungry waiting to be seated at a table, that they...

To me, people who eat the British way seem like they are gobbling their food, because they never put their silverware down in between bites.

Yes, they do! Or they should, anyway. It's just that when they put down their knife and fork to rest between bites, they don't switch hands.

With royal tensions in France, the 1780's brought in the popularity of the more democratic "peasent" dress, with democratic ideas also being felt from the infant nation of the United States. The change in society's view of women (that which I spoke of earlier) also championed the child-like, freer dress of this period, with, by far, the most popular colour being pure white.

Sprigged, when you come over to the UK, you're going to have to go to the Museum of Costume in Bath! I can tell you'll love it! It's a collection of clothing (men and women) from the ... I'm guessing 16th century (?) to the present. It's amazing.
http://www.museumofcostume.co.uk/

I know what you mean! (And I didn't think you didn't believe me, I just thought you might think it was interesting! )

Oh, sorry!! Send away! Yes, I love etiquette books, too!

this is one of my HUGE pet  peeves  in England!!  No one  seems to give out napkins!!  are they  rationong??  so when we go to my in laws.. I have to  ask james to get me  a napkin.. it drives  me crazy!!  other homes I'll just  look for one.. there is always a kitchen roll handy.. 

This drives me crazy as well. My hubby and I go into a restaurant, and we've got a small child, and ask for more napkins, usually we get a 'look', and sometimes they will only bring like two napkins!!! So now, when we go to takeaways where they have the napkin dispensers out, I take loads and keep them in my purse for later.