work attitudes

Hi everyone,
Maybe I'm just venting, but I have some general concerns I'd appreciate some feedback on.
I do have the problem of being a sort of struggling writer and thesis student
eternally trying to get on my feet, but I've started three jobs and been fired from each of them
with absolutely no warning, ie no criticism that would even give me a chance to improve. Two
of the jobs were teaching ESL (a joke job, I know), supposedly because the students could
not understand my American accent. I only knew the students had trouble understanding me,
if that was even the case, because I was being fired and that was the explanation. (I have
held similar jobs in other countries and generally was seen as a diligent and effective teacher.)
Then, I tried temping for a few months. I got a long-term part-time position which was quite
unskilled and in which there was often absolutely nothing to do. Two and a half months passed
without a word, and the other day my agency called my boss (I picked up the phone) and
on Friday at 4:55 I was vaguely told by said boss that he hoped my agency would find me other
work- I hadn't even been told definitively that I was out, only, when I asked if something was going
on, that I might be "happier at a larger company." Am I just completely out of it? I do need to
open up my own cat-sitting, stained glass company and not work for The Man, but this is really weird.
I do have a bit of a spotty work history, but if I was ever fired before, it was somehow clear that
either I wasn't doing the job right, or that my employers had a bone to pick with me.
 Any thoughts? By the way, I'm in London through my also foreign husband, who is getting
a PhD.

I don't know the specifics of each of your jobs, but to me at at least, comments like 'joke job' and 'quite unskilled . . . absolutely nothing to do' are very telling.  If these jobs are so beneath you, why bother taking them at all?  It does both your employer and you a disservice when you find yourself so over-qualified for these positions you don't take them seriously.

I don't know about the first two, but the third may have to do with legalities. I temped for a year once in Florida and there was one compant that continually hired temps and fired them just before the law said that if they kept them any longer they had to offer them a permanent position. I also know about the over-qualified bit, and I do not agree with the first reply to your post. I was dropped by one of the agencies that had been placing me and they told me that the clients were uncomfortable with having someone in that position who was os obviously overqualified. As I used to put it "OK, perhaps I'm overqualified to be an envelope stuffer, but my objective is to not find myself underqualified to live under a roof!" I know just how frustrating it can be. I once asked a guy in my neighborhood who happened to be washing down his sidewalk if he knew of any opportunities only to find the police at my door saying I had to go and be examined for mental illness. The "neighbor" had reported an encounter with "a crazy woman". The examiner talked with me for two minutes and said "You don't need mental help! You need a job that matches your abilities!"

Why is teaching ESL a joke job? I know lots of people who have done that, it is great if you want to travel, you can get work in so many places. I know people who are qualified nurses, university lecturers and architects who have done it.   I find it hard to believe they were firing you because of your accent.   What kind of contract were you on and what did it say about warnings and notice periods?

hi there... no, ESL is only a joke job re the pay and crappy conditions, I'm probably
just a little depressed at once again doing
my fall-back job (5 years or so) and getting fired without knowing why. I never used the
word "overqualified" for myself for anything; I know how to teach ESL and, uh, type; I should
probably learn how to do something more specialized, because with what I can do so many
people can do it that you are always in danger of being canned- oops, I'm in Britain; "sacked".
I was wondering if there were some cultural things I'm not understanding- no one has complained
to me about my job performance; rather, I get fired and don't see it coming. Maybe I'm out of it,
as I was getting a Master's for three years before this and the atmosphere there was both
critical and supportive.  I don't think that one can be "overqualified" for typist work; I suspect
my boredom with doing nothing made me less cheerful than they would want, but who jumps with
joy at the start of a low-level secretarial day?

but who jumps with
joy at the start of a low-level secretarial day?

Plenty of folks for whom the job puts food on the table.  Myself, for example.  But since I felt less challenged, I took it upon myself to use the 'boredom' to further my education and experience - asking for new assignments and professional training.  I'm also pursuing a law degree at night starting in Autumn - my second degree.  The problem isn't the job, it's with myself and the level of challenge I need to feel satisfied.  That's MY problem for me to deal with.  But it's an important distinction to make b/c at the end of the day, former employers are an important source when it comes to one's future career, even if the employee completely changes gears later on. 

Part of being a marketable, valuable employee, to me at least, is to be able to put my best foot forward no matter what my personal feelings - after all, barring persons with special needs, one's mood is entirely under one's control and is really none of the employers' concern.  They're paying for my service - therefore it's my job to give that to them or find another job that suits me better.

I also taught ESL and didn't consider it a 'fall back' job at all.  I felt I was helping a real contribution to peoples' new life in a new country and found that really rewarding.  In fact I'm considering going back to it here, as it will suit my own school schedule better.  Thankfully, my efforts made mark on my former employers, and after contacting them - from 5 years earlier - they still remembered me and are happy to give me a reference if I decide to pursue that avenue here.

expat in scotland,

You are you. We are not. Perhaps you can respond that way to boredom on a job, but I, for one, cannot. Maybe it's something about not really wanting what asking for extra or more advanced assignments would bring you. For me, I need to do art. Positively cannot survive without it. Spent 20 years being a pretty good research scientist until I gave in to that realization. I know I'm not alone because I made a series of brooches based on my feelings while I was temping. May favorite is called "Living on the edges of my days", which was really how I felt, like I was only living the two hours I had between getting home and making dinner and having to go to bed in order to be up and ready to do the jobs I didn't enjoy in the least. Guess what, they all sold in record  time.

DJC

To answer Mollypicon's question - I can't think of any cultural factor that is contributing here - did these dismissals come right out of the blue? In the case of the ESL job, what kind of contract were you on and what did it say about notice periods? Most contracts of employment these days reqire a warning or two before dismissal unless you have done something terrible.  I am wondering if the school you were working for was entirely legit as you say the pay and hours were not good. A friend of mine was teaching ESL in London a couple of years ago and he said the hours and pay were better than when he worked as a podiatrist.  It just sounds a bit fishy to me - maybe you will have a better experience in a different school.

Thanks for your replies.  Yes, Britwife, I was dismissed out of the blue at every single job in that
there was not one criticism of my job performance. I wasn't told to speak more clearly
or I would lose my job. I wasn't told whether I had made some mistakes or anything like that
on the temp job. The agency told me I'd done nothing and that the company had said "I might be
happier at a larger company", and these people, who I liked and respected as charming and
typical English people, said nothing to me about not coming back on Monday until I was about
to leave. I have, as I mentioned, been fired before, but I had either been warned or seen
the existence of company politics. Am I expected in Britain to arrive a fully formed and perfect
employee, and if I'm not I'm sacked without warning? Or is it just that mythic fear of confrontation
and embarrassment? My own artistic tendencies don't help- maybe I spent too much time at the
office job reading literary magazines to submit to as opposed to what happy workers are assumed to be doing
on the computer when nothing is going on (ie spending money on Ebay)- but that sounds very paranoid.
Anyway, I'm going to start a dogsitting business. Anyone want in on it, lemme know.

You still haven't said what the terms of your contract for the ESL job were. For a  temping job it is easy enough to let someone go but if your ESL job was a permanent contract then something is not right.  Firing you because of your accent amounts to racial discrimination if you ask me and you should contact the Commission for Racial Equality if you want to do something about it.

Reading magazines at work even when it is totally dead is not generally acceptable here (nor is shopping on Ebay!)  and I would be very surprised if it was in the US.   If you've nothing to do, why not ask for something? I can imagine most employers would not be happy to find someone sitting reading a magazine during paid work time. 

Good luck with your dogsitting.

At my workplace in NY's garment district, the receptionists and the women who manned the phones to take orders were encouraged to read any and all fashion magazines when the phones weren't ringing and were often asked their opinions of new designs. And there has been actual scientific research showing that if employees are encouraged to use their computers for their own purposes during downtimes, they will become better at using their computers for their jobs.

DJC

expat in scotland,

You are you. We are not. Perhaps you can respond that way to boredom on a job, but I, for one, cannot. Maybe it's something about not really wanting what asking for extra or more advanced assignments would bring you. For me, I need to do art. Positively cannot survive without it. Spent 20 years being a pretty good research scientist until I gave in to that realization. I know I'm not alone because I made a series of brooches based on my feelings while I was temping. May favorite is called "Living on the edges of my days", which was really how I felt, like I was only living the two hours I had between getting home and making dinner and having to go to bed in order to be up and ready to do the jobs I didn't enjoy in the least. Guess what, they all sold in record  time.

DJC

DJC,
Personally, if I'd been sacked from 3 jobs, I think I'd start to consider that maybe I was the one with the attitude that needed changing, not the employers or work culture. 

I never said needing art or being creative was a bad thing.  I have an English degree and enjoy writing for work and for fun.  But it can be when you take jobs that aren't suited to that. 

I take jobs to pay the bills.  We all do.  But I think falling into a trap where you don't appreciate what you get out of those jobs - even if it's the few bob you need to make your rent - comes across as a 'bad attitude' to employers and customers and leads to things like getting the sack.  Plain and simple.  If I were running a business that was not suited to the art or literary industry I wouldn't be pleased to pay people to indulge their personal hobbies on my dime, and I can't think of any job I had in the US, where I was a senior legal secretary for some years, where I would have even assumed that was acceptable behaviour at work. In fact, I've found British employers far more relaxed than any I had in the US.

UK employers generally have a longer 'probation' period in which they may terminate an employee for any reason.  That's written into the contract you sign, so if you want to keep the job it's important to be on your best behaviour, at least during that time period. 

Just a thought. 

Good luck w/the dogsitting business.

My own artistic tendencies don't help- maybe I spent too much time at the
office job reading literary magazines to submit to as opposed to what happy workers are assumed to be doing
on the computer when nothing is going on (ie spending money on Ebay)- but that sounds very paranoid.

I wonder if what you consider to be your "artistic tendencies" comes across to Brit employers as something altogether different.

I have to say that if I had been fired that many times and no-one was telling me what was wrong, I really would be taking a long hard look at myself.

I don't think you quoted this, but whoever said " do we have to be fully formed workers" etc, no you don't but in the UK you are expected to be SEEN to be fully formed, or showing some interest in the core responsibilities not making it clear to people you are either too creative/artistic to be bothered with such a lowly position - because that's how it is coming across.

They say only boring people get bored! If a job is not up to spec, it us up to you to make it so, develop ideas, develop your skills, most jobs are never as they are advertised, it's what you make them and if it's just a job to pay the bills, no matter how boring, surely you just put up and shut up? At least that's what I have always done if there is no way to expand upon a role until I can get out or move up.

I really hope things get better, because I sense you are pretty miserable and that's a real shame.

Again I have to say that it is just great if you can just suck it up when you need the money to put food on the table, but I don't believe there's anything wrong with a person who can't do that. As for the idea that there is no such thing as a boring job and that only boring people get bored, both of those are just plain nonsense, whoever says them. Many folks take a good look at the kind of work I love (I gravitate to the most labor intensive forms of needlework and craft there are) and say "How tedious!", which translates as "I would find that boring as hell." I just figure their temperment is different than mine and viva la difference. Different jobs are boring to different people. And there's not a thing in the world wrong with that or with a person who finds boring what you think is a most interesting job or with a person who finds interesting what you think is a most boring job. I believe if you look back at folks you found the most boring, you'll find that they were not bored, just endlessly interested in something you didn't find interesting in the least. Again, viva la difference. Maybe you're right that if you're fired from a number of jobs without any explanation, you should take a good look at yourself, but I would insist that looking for something to fix in yourself would be the wrong approach. The jobs weren't a good fit.
     Sometimes, for nobody's fault what-so-ever, the only jobs available to a certain worker are jobs that aren't a good fit for that worker. None the less, that worker insists on eating and wearing clothes and trying to live in shelter and such. Some folks just give up in such circumstances and live on the dole for the rest of their lives. Those who keep on trying anyway deserve support not put-downs.

Again I have to say that it is just great if you can just suck it up when you need the money to put food on the table, but I don't believe there's anything wrong with a person who can't do that.

Oh, but there is something wrong with someone who cannot do that, they are considered unreliable and unemployable and it might be difficult to pay the mortgage and if I lived with someone like that I would consider them a bit of a liability!

As for the idea that there is no such thing as a boring job and that only boring people get bored, both of those are just plain nonsense, whoever says them. Many folks take a good look at the kind of work I love (I gravitate to the most labor intensive forms of needlework and craft there are) and say "How tedious!", which translates as "I would find that boring as hell." I just figure their temperment is different than mine and viva la difference. Different jobs are boring to different people. And there's not a thing in the world wrong with that or with a person who finds boring what you think is a most interesting job or with a person who finds interesting what you think is a most boring job. I believe if you look back at folks you found the most boring, you'll find that they were not bored, just endlessly interested in something you didn't find interesting in the least. Again, viva la difference..

I didn't say there is no such thing as a boring job, my job can be boring sometimes, but I'll be darned before I sit there and whinge that it's boring, or it's everyone elses fault without trying everything I can to make that change and before I am caught reading a magazine at my job because I don't have enough initiative to find something else job-related to do or cannot bear to ask someone to bring me work/teach me something in case I don't want to do what they (may) bring!

Maybe you're right that if you're fired from a number of jobs without any explanation, you should take a good look at yourself, but I would insist that looking for something to fix in yourself would be the wrong approach. The jobs weren't a good fit.

I was gently trying to suggest that this attitude might be just why someone finds themselves in this position in the first place! You clearly weren't fired for being a good candidate for the job, so something is wrong and why go for the jobs in the first place if they are "not a good fit"- that doesn't make any sense, you cannot have it both ways!

Sometimes, for nobody's fault what-so-ever, the only jobs available to a certain worker are jobs that aren't a good fit for that worker. None the less, that worker insists on eating and wearing clothes and trying to live in shelter and such. Some folks just give up in such circumstances and live on the dole for the rest of their lives. Those who keep on trying anyway deserve support not put-downs.

I agree, sometimes jobs available are all that there is at that particular time- no argument from me there- isn't that what we are trying to say, these are the times one sucks it up and gets out as soon as possible, but at least you know you're earning your keep and paying your way.

I am certainly not putting anyone down for continuing to try to be gainfully employed, what I was trying to do was to suggest that an attitude as described above is actually coming off poorly and that *might* be the place to start in trying to turn the problem around.

I am very sorry that I seem to have touched a nerve with you, but I was actually trying to be practical and helpful towards the O.P, who is at least attempting to try to find out what might be going wrong.