Children of British Mothers born pre 1983... useful info

newcomer link: http://www.turberville.org [nonactive]
CAMPAIGNS - CHILDREN AND MATERNAL PARENTS AGAINST IMMIGRATION & GOVERNMENT NATIONALITY SITUATION

A parliamentary lobby group to present the issue of the disenfranchisement of British Women who married Non-British Men and had Children born outside the UK or Commonwealth before 1983 in the attempt to gain recognition of our Nationality birth rights.

Prior to 1983, Children born outside of the United Kingdom or Commonwealth, who had a mother who was a citizen/subject of the United Kingdom but married to a non-British Man, have no claim to British Nationality. 

Nationality to pre-1983 Children was passed only by having a UK-born Father - this is obvious sex discrimination by means of treating British Women who married non-British men as second class citizens/property of their husbands and/or fathers in Nationality Issues in Legislation. 

During the years 1977 to 1983, a government policy recognised this discrimination issue and allowed people in these circumstances to become registered as UK citizens, but only if they were born between 01 February 1961 and 31 December 1983 and registered whilst still under the age of 18. 

The law was changed in 1981 and took effect in 01 January 1983. 
The new law no longer discriminated against British Mothers, however, the new law applies only to people born from 01 January 1983 onwards.

Many people who may have qualified under the 1977 policy never knew about the policy and missed the opportunity.
Almost everyone, including myself, who contacted the British Consulate in their respective countries and/or at the Home Office in the UK were simply told that there was nothing that could be done- even though this policy existed!

In 2001, we persuaded HM Gov to move the registration date to 1961. We now have a commitment by HM Gov that the 1961 date will be removed in the current bill.
The Draft Bill has finally been published for debate by MP's.

newcomer link: http://www.ukba.homeoffice.gov.uk/sitecontent/documents/policyandlaw/immigrationandcitizenshipbill/ [nonactive]

Our long awaited and promised section appears in this document on page 7 as a given fact, not up for debate:

newcomer link: http://www.ukba.homeoffice.gov.uk/sitecontent/documents/policyandlaw/immigrationandcitizenshipbill/draftbill/makingchangestick.pdf?view=Binary [nonactive]

Fair rights to citizenship

In addition to the earned citizenship changes we intend to make a specific change to section 4C of the British Nationality Act 1981 in the interests of fairness.
Currently people born to British mothers between 1961 and 1983, who would have become British automatically if women had been able to pass on citizenship
in the same way as men at that time, can be registered as British citizens. Those born before 1961 remain at a disadvantage compared to the children of British men.
We will remove the 1961 cut off date.

Well this all sounds like good news especially for my wife born outside the UK in 1946 of a Brit born mother (a war bride) to a Soldier.

Then again, the removal of the date does not say if it will be capped back to another time & date or whether it would be completely removed.

I just dont believe until the bill is passed and the Nationality act changed.

I am Brit by birth and we have not lived in the UK for 45 years. We missed the last window of opportunity open up to 1971. My wife did not get it when it was open to those born of Brit mothers back then, she simply had a patriality stamp in her passport, now called "The right of abode"

Our kids all born outside the UK have Brit passports but not their mother (my wife) ... life is funny.

Last point is that as a child my wife lived in the UK for 10-years with her parents. She schooled there and worked for 3-years before leaving, even has an NI number & British State Pension ... but is not entitled (at this time) to a British Passport, unless we return and live in the UK for 3-years

I had previously made an informal inquiry with the Consulate in the US and had been advised in 2005:

Sorry for the delay in getting back to you. I have had a passport examiner look into this in great detail and they have concluded from the Nationality Laws at the time and subsequent ones to follow that your mother acquired her citizenship by decent and therefore cannot pass this on to you, this is also the case, regardless of your grandfathers position within the Crown Service- it clearly states in the handbook that women born abroad at that time could not transfer citizenship to their children.

Now if this new law comes into place...even if my mom had acquired her citizenship by decent and I was born in the US, could I do the UKM application now or in 2009 and possibly acquire citizenship?

I was born in 1968 in Los Angeles, CA. My mother was born in S. America to a British father and my mom has an expired British passport. My birth in 1968 was not registered.

I just found some more notes that I had kept in old e-mails.

Had another look at this case and from the information which is provided, i still do not see a case for Registration under Section 4C of the British Nationality Act 1981.

1. Paternal Grandfather born in the United Kingdom is a British Subject by birth under the Section 1(1)(a) BNSAA 1914 2. Daughter born in 1934 outside the UK and Colonies would have been a British Subject by decent under Section 1(1)((iv) BNSAA 1922, as read with BNSAA 1914 (father in diplomatic service). On the introduction of the British Nationality Act 1948, his daughter would then have had a status of British Subject, Citizen of the UK & Colonies Section 12(2) BNA 1948. This is nationality gained by decent. 3. Under the BNA 1948, females could not pass on nationality. However, if they had been able to, her daughter would then be the second generation born outside the UK and have no automatic claim to British Nationality (unless registered at a Embassy within one year of birth under Section 5(1)( BNA 1948

It does depend on how your mother acquired her British nationality.  Mine acquired it by birth, so when (fingers crossed, I'll also only believe it when I see it) this law changes, if they take the birth cut-off date out of there, I'll be able to register - or possibly, they'll remove the requirement to register, since the foreign born children of British men don't have to register!

In any event, I believe the British mother has to have acquired her British nationality other than by descent.  So, when I am able to acquire this citizenship, I will not be able to pass it on.  I do not know if that is the exact case for you cie3, but I can only assume so based on the fact that you say your mother acquired her citizenship by descent...

Someone who is British by decent cannot automaticall pass their citizenship onto their children.

The exception is if that person spent a specific amount of time living in the UK before the child was born.

So, cie3, if your mom had British citizenship through a parent but was born in the US and never lived in the UK, she cannot pass her citizenship to you (assuming that you were born outside of the UK) regardless of these rules changes.

Vicky

It does depend on how your mother acquired her British nationality.  Mine acquired it by birth, so when (fingers crossed, I'll also only believe it when I see it) this law changes, if they take the birth cut-off date out of there, I'll be able to register - or possibly, they'll remove the requirement to register, since the foreign born children of British men don't have to register!

In any event, I believe the British mother has to have acquired her British nationality other than by descent.  So, when I am able to acquire this citizenship, I will not be able to pass it on.  I do not know if that is the exact case for you cie3, but I can only assume so based on the fact that you say your mother acquired her citizenship by descent...

Juliloew, it would appear from your profile that you are domicile in the UK at present and would have a right-of-abode stamped in your passport based on your mothers birth in the UK her being a UK citizen?

If that is so, then under the proposed changes to section 4c this would be one way to gain citizenship or the right to a Brit passport (by descent). If you already have the right of abode to live in the UK & have been there for 3-years, I believe that you can apply for full naturalization as a UK citizenship (unqualified response)

Someone who is British by decent cannot automaticall pass their citizenship onto their children.

The exception is if that person spent a specific amount of time living in the UK before the child was born.

So, cie3, if your mom had British citizenship through a parent but was born in the US and never lived in the UK, she cannot pass her citizenship to you (assuming that you were born outside of the UK) regardless of these rules changes.

Vicky

Thanks Vicky for the information. My mom did live in the UK for a handful of years...she did her nurses training there but she spent more years in the US, I believe. This is not the answer I was hoping for but I really appreciate the reply and the information provided.

Elizabeth

Juliloew, it would appear from your profile that you are domicile in the UK at present and would have a right-of-abode stamped in your passport based on your mothers birth in the UK her being a UK citizen?

If that is so, then under the proposed changes to section 4c this would be one way to gain citizenship or the right to a Brit passport (by descent). If you already have the right of abode to live in the UK & have been there for 3-years, I believe that you can apply for full naturalization as a UK citizenship (unqualified response)

You are right, I am here in the UK, but not through anything to do with my mother, visa-wise anyway.  The way the law stands now, I'm not entitled to right of abode or anything rights to live in the UK through my mother. 

But, I wanted to live in the UK since I was a teen!  Not having the 'net back in those days, I wasn't sure how to go about it.  Really wanted to attend uni here, but didn't get much encouragement from family on either side of the pond.

Fast forward 30 years, one failed marriage, two grown kids later and it seemed like an ideal time to blow a lot of hard-earned money to move to the UK on a student visa to attend uni, which I did.  I'm now married to a British citizen and eligible to apply for ILR in May of '09, although I'm really hoping these changes go through before then so I can jump to registration and claim citizenship through my mom.  A minor sticking point for many, I'm sure, but I'd like to gain that passport through birth to a British citizen, not marriage to one.

Sorry, didn't mean to give you most of my life's story...   However, I am truly happy to be living in the UK, in spite of missing my kids.  Another trip back to see them schedule in just a few weeks!

cie3 - did your mum live here for three consecutive years?

Vicky

cie3 - did your mum live here for three consecutive years?

Vicky

Apparently she did from 1952 to 1953 where she did her nurses training. She was a midwife for a time as well. It doesn't sound like she was there for more than three years.

Then I think it is a no-go.  Even if she had, you'd have a fight on your hands.

Vicky

Drats! Thanks for letting me know. Elizabeth

Does anyone have an update?

Has it been passed yet or still waiting & sitting through the benches in Parliament

See this link that Vicky kindly shared not too long ago:

http://www.commonsleader.gov.uk/output/page2373.asp

No, the bill it is attached to hasn't been passed yet.  The link will take you to a table where you can follow all the action...

Thank you