Hello
Guest

Sponsored Links


Topic: Which country to retire to for fun, culture, nightlife? Ireland,France, Spain?  (Read 23690 times)

0 Members and 2 Guests are viewing this topic.

  • *
  • Posts: 17769

  • Liked: 6118
  • Joined: Sep 2010
Nice!

Did you enjoy living in the States? How is he adjusting to life in Europe?

Thanks! It took me three full years to get over the culture shock but after that, I really loved it there... although I never got over being homesick for the UK. Now I miss the US a lot! ..Curse of the expat!  ;D

My husband LOVES it here.  ;D


  • *
  • Posts: 568

  • Liked: 70
  • Joined: Mar 2005
I adore Ireland.  It's lovely for a holiday, but I wouldn't want to live there long-term.

For me: job market is worse and they are a more conservative country.  I'm female in my 30s so both those things are very important to me and my family.

Retiring, I'd pick what matters to you.  I believe my concerns at that point in life would be health care, assess to services and facilities without having to drive, integrating and being able to speak the language.  For those reasons I'd be more likely to pick Ireland, but I don't speak any other languages besides English and I don't seem to learn languages easily.

I'm from the SE of the US (suburbs of Atlanta) and love living in London, it suits me, even it's fairly unfriendly nature.  Having people comment on my apple choices in Publix in GA is shocking to me, it's just a step too far.  (See YouTube piss take in previous post.)  If I could settle anywhere in London I'd pick a more village-y type of area.  I liked Camberwell and Dulwich when I lived there.  But typical of the North - South divide  ::) we won't live South of the river.  Husband says that's for work and transport reasons.  I question that.


  • *
  • Posts: 248

  • Liked: 3
  • Joined: Dec 2007
Thanks! It took me three full years to get over the culture shock but after that, I really loved it there... although I never got over being homesick for the UK. Now I miss the US a lot! ..Curse of the expat!  ;D

My husband LOVES it here.  ;D

It's a very big deal for a couple to be on the same page about where to live. Believe it or not, that is one of the bigger issues couples disagree on. That was a major problem in my previous relationship. You guys are luck for that not to be a issue.

What region of America did you guys settle in? You guys were to move back to the States would you want to try out a different area?


  • *
  • Posts: 248

  • Liked: 3
  • Joined: Dec 2007
I adore Ireland.  It's lovely for a holiday, but I wouldn't want to live there long-term.

For me: job market is worse and they are a more conservative country.  I'm female in my 30s so both those things are very important to me and my family.

Retiring, I'd pick what matters to you.  I believe my concerns at that point in life would be health care, assess to services and facilities without having to drive, integrating and being able to speak the language.  For those reasons I'd be more likely to pick Ireland, but I don't speak any other languages besides English and I don't seem to learn languages easily.

I'm from the SE of the US (suburbs of Atlanta) and love living in London, it suits me, even it's fairly unfriendly nature.  Having people comment on my apple choices in Publix in GA is shocking to me, it's just a step too far.  (See YouTube piss take in previous post.)  If I could settle anywhere in London I'd pick a more village-y type of area.  I liked Camberwell and Dulwich when I lived there.  But typical of the North - South divide  ::) we won't live South of the river.  Husband says that's for work and transport reasons.  I question that.

Thanks Larissa for posting.

Georgia Peach are you? Always nice to see another fellow southerner.

I'm very fortunate that my partner is so flexible and supportive. Her idea place to select in this fun adventure of ours is truly wherever we both are living as a couple. And that inspires me to put her preferences first. And although I don't speak French at all, I'm seriously considering the idea of picking Toulouse France over Barcelona Spain and Dublin Ireland. She speak Spanish & French fluently and I have a decent understanding of Spanish. But I can immerse myself and come up wet in just about anything that I have passion for. French will be harder for me to learn but I'm a A+ student at University( back in the day) with very good study habits.  Will need to apply myself in learning this language. I haven't told her this yet because any good businessman should never show all their cards. And who loves a push over anyway.

Both of the latter choices would be fun cultural picks no doubt, but to know for sure we'll pop over to Europe in September to complete the process of elimination. We live in beautiful Florida and enjoy the year round incredible weather and relaxed environment. We are also flexible enough to appreciate life in a fast pace bustling city. So we'll see how this unfolds.

I went to Dublin on holiday several years ago in the summer months and it was pleasant, but I have no idea what Ireland's winters are like but I'm imagining windy grey and rainy days and nights. Kinda like my years living in Seattle Washington. Which btw is a major destination for many Europeans. So it would be somewhat fun to have contrasting climates to bounce between since we are keeping our place in Florida. Of course it's not of paramount importance to have different climates.

I believe the fundamental reason in our decision for living in a different country is to experience the flavor of that nation's culture. The food, the art, their way of life whether we're talking about how preferential pub life is in socializing, or down to the smaller details in general. Originally this was my idea to retire in Europe but I think she is more excited than I am. The Mrs is already downsizing by selling certain things and we're still many months out.

How would you describe the culture in London and in the UK in general?


  • *
  • Posts: 3944

  • Liked: 348
  • Joined: Sep 2014
Ireland is expensive. And the taxes are higher than the UK, I believe.

Scotland has brought in a higher rate of Income Tax than the other 3 countries in the UK. I don't know if this is higher than the Republic of Ireland.

And a while back they were pulling some unpleasant things with US citizens who had been living there.

That was the Republic shuting down abuse, just as other countries do all the time. They give free healthcare to those in poverty. To protect their health service, they want to see that retirees to their country have a set amount each and will not be a burden on the Irish taxpayers for healthcare or on their welfare system. They do not allow these retirees to take a job. I think that Spain does the same thing?

The UK too have already started doing lots of the same to stop abuse.
 e.g. Those with Britsih citizenship or who are married to a British citizen, who retired to an EEA country and brought a house there, had all their medical bills in that country paid for by the UK. In 2015 the UK stopped that for everyone, unless they have contributed to the UK and are in receipt of a UK state pension. 12 months later, the UK ended a spouse getting a UK state pension via their partners contributions to the UK.

The EU did it too to stop the abuse after complaints from the popular EEA countries. With their 2004 Directive, theiy said that Self Sufficients (which retirees come under with their Free Movement) must now not be "an undue buden" to another EEA country. These must pay for their own health care in another EEA country and not take welfare. They must also have what the EU called in that Directive,  "Comprehensive Sickness Insurance" at all times.
« Last Edit: June 03, 2018, 01:59:55 PM by Sirius »


  • *
  • Posts: 17769

  • Liked: 6118
  • Joined: Sep 2010
It's a very big deal for a couple to be on the same page about where to live. Believe it or not, that is one of the bigger issues couples disagree on. That was a major problem in my previous relationship. You guys are luck for that not to be a issue.

What region of America did you guys settle in? You guys were to move back to the States would you want to try out a different area?

Agreed! We are very lucky in that respect.  :)

We were in Southern California. If we ever did move back, that's where we'd go back to.  :)


  • *
  • Posts: 568

  • Liked: 70
  • Joined: Mar 2005
Thanks Larissa for posting.

Georgia Peach are you? Always nice to see another fellow southerner.

I'm not sure I've ever been called that!  But it is where I'm registered in the US for voting purposes.


How would you describe the culture in London and in the UK in general?

I get why you want to move.  For new cultural experiences, right?  You've explained that part of it very well a few times.  I don't know how to answer your question, it's rather vague.

You want to move for different reasons than most of us.  Most people on this forum have moved for a relationship with a few moving for job or education reasons.  Being in a relationship with a person from a different country means we have to pick a country and put ourselves through the process to retain that relationship.  Most of us are also dealt with finding a job or work to support ourselves and our families.  You are retired.  Additionally, I believe this forum's average age is probably younger than what you and your partner are.  The choices that we're making, what we're trying to gain, and what our plans are are going to be vastly different to yours.

What are you looking for?  Other than to have new cultural experiences.  How do you see yourself living and spending your time?

My in-laws, despite voting for Brexit  ::), wish to retire to the South of France (don't get me started).  It has good mountain biking, walking, markets, it's cheaper than the UK and has warmer weather, they both speak some French, and they have an RV they like to use and France is apparently great for travelling that way with lots of sites and hook-ups at reasonable prices.


  • *
  • Posts: 5938

  • Liked: 726
  • Joined: Sep 2015
Scotland has brought in a higher rate of Income Tax than the other 3 countries in the UK. I don't know if this is higher than the Republic of Ireland.

That was the Republic shuting down abuse, just as other countries do all the time. They give free healthcare to those in poverty. To protect their health service, they want to see that retirees to their country have a set amount each and will not be a burden on the Irish taxpayers for healthcare or on their welfare system. They do not allow these retirees to take a job. I think that Spain does the same thing?

The UK too have already started doing lots of the same to stop abuse.  e.g. Those with Britsih citizenship or who are married to a British citizen, who retired to an EEA country and brought a house there, had all their medical bills in that country paid for by the UK. In 2015 the UK stopped that for everyone, unless they have contributed to the UK and are in receipt of a UK state pension. 12 months later, the UK ended a spouse getting a UK state pension via their partners contributions to the UK.

The EU did it too to stop thos abuse, with their 2004 Directive. Self Sufficients (which retirees come under with Free Movement) must now not be a "buden" to another EEA country. These must pay for their own health care and not take welfare. They must also have what the EU called a "Comprehensive Sickness Insurance" at all times.


I believe the complaints about Ireland were that there were no guidelines or regulations in place. People who had followed all the published requirements and who had "done their homework" prior to moving over years earlier were blindsided when new regulations were put in place without warning, and there was no "grandfather" clause - so, basically, people who had been completely self-sufficient, paying taxes, carrying private health insurance, owning property, and otherwise law abiding were suddenly told they were not welcome and thrown out on very short notice. Several of these were elderly persons, as I understand it, who had lived there for years and who were members of their local community. And the amount they set as base income required per year is pretty steep -  €50,000 (£44K-ish) per person per year plus a lump-sum of savings available that is the equivalent of the price of a home there. (Even if you already had paid for a home and no mortgage.) Ouchies!

So much for the heavy advertising campaigns they'd been running with the "come home to Ireland" theme. Basically, they turned it into "come to Ireland, spend lots of dollars, and then go home again, please. Unless you are loaded, and then you can stay."

I'm all for rooting out fraud, but it needs to be done properly and not cause hardships for people who are not committing fraud.  I haven't heard much about these cases in a few years, so perhaps they were walked back when they started getting publicity.  They really botched the implementation.

As for Scottish Tax:

The usual 11,850 pound disregard applies, and then
Over £11,850-£13,850  Starter Rate  19%
Over £13,850-£24,000 Basic Rate 20%
Over £24,000-£43,430 Intermediate Rate 21%
Over £43,430-£150,000** Higher Rate  41%
Above £150,000** Top Rate 46%

In Ireland, for a single person it's
first 34,550E (30,000 pounds) at 20%
Over that at 40%
with the personal disregard being 1,650E (1,434 pounds)

(I believe that the euro to pound today is about .87)

English tax:

Up to £11,850    Personal allowance   0%
£11,851 to £46,350   Basic rate   20%
£46,351 to £150,000   Higher rate   40%
Over £150,000   Additional rate   45%

The VAT systems are different, so it's hard to compare costs, but the standard Irish rate is 23% and 20% in the UK. So, the Scottish tax is pretty much the same as the English tax for the middle-income group, perhaps a bit kinder to lower income, and slightly harsher high income people.  The Irish tax system doesn't allow you that first block of income as tax-free, so you're pretty much paying 20% until you hit 30,000pounds, and then it's 40%. [One cool thing about Ireland: if you are an author, painter, musician, etc., and your income is from those activities, I believe it's not taxed.]


As to medical care:  Apparently waiting lists for public healthcare are really bad in Ireland. Medical cards are needs-tested, and only around 1/3 of the Irish have one. "Those without a Medical Card or private health insurance, and their dependents, can receive medical services free or at a subsidised rate from the Treatment Benefit Scheme, which takes into account the compulsory Social Insurance Fund (PRSI) contributions they have made."  Otherwise, the following applies  http://www.citizensinformation.ie/en/health/health_system/health_services_and_visitors_to_ireland.html  and http://relocatingtoireland.com/irish-essentials/healthcare-in-ireland/#An-Overview-of-the-Irish-Healthcare-System
« Last Edit: June 03, 2018, 03:25:15 PM by Nan D. »


  • *
  • Posts: 3944

  • Liked: 348
  • Joined: Sep 2014
 
prior to moving over years earlier were blindsided when new regulations were put in place without warning, and there was no "grandfather" clause.

It was the same when the EU and the UK brought in the changes that I mentioned in my previous post, no grandfathering as it was shuting down abuse.

And the amount they set as base income required per year is pretty steep -  €50,000 (£44K-ish) per person per year plus a lump-sum of savings available that is the equivalent of the price of a home there. (Even if you already had paid for a home and no mortgage.) Ouchies! 

That's very cheap. If they wanted to retire to the UK, then they need to have some serious money, with at least £2,000,000 invested in the UK.

The VAT systems are different, so it's hard to compare costs, but the standard Irish rate is 23% and 20% in the UK.

Most of the VAT money is for the EU. VAT is usually raised when the old men of Brussels want more money for their latest half baked idea.

So, the Scottish tax is pretty much the same as the English tax for the middle-income group, perhaps a bit kinder to lower income, and slightly harsher high income people.   

Yes I read that the SNP planned to raise the Income Tax of high earners in Scotland, to try to start to fill their annual 15/16 billion financial black hole, that massive shortfall  that is presently given to Scotland by rest of the UK. From what I recall from the articles in the Scottish papers, it was pointed out that the high earners are only 1% of those living in Scotland, but they provide 19% of the Income Tax taken by the Scotttish government and that many of these could easily move to England. I assumed that's why they created all the lower income brackets, to start raising their taxes instead?

As to medical care:  Apparently waiting lists for public healthcare are really bad in Ireland. Medical cards are needs-tested, and only around 1/3 of the Irish have one. "Those without a Medical Card or private health insurance, and their dependents, can receive medical services free or at a subsidised rate from the Treatment Benefit Scheme, which takes into account the compulsory Social Insurance Fund (PRSI) contributions they have made."  Otherwise, the following applies  http://www.citizensinformation.ie/en/health/health_system/health_services_and_visitors_to_ireland.html  and http://relocatingtoireland.com/irish-essentials/healthcare-in-ireland/#An-Overview-of-the-Irish-Healthcare-System

Yes,. I have Irish friends who live in the Republic, so I know how the Irish healthcare system works.  :)

But these foreign retirees to Ireland are not allowed to work as the Irsih do not want them to take one of their jobs, because these retireess job is to spend lots of their retirement income to help the Irish economy. Which is why the Irish government want to ensure that these have enough income so that they will never be a burden to their healthcare system or welfare state AND still have lots of Euros left to spend.


Apart from the endless rain, I quite like the Republic of Ireland but it can be expensive if on a fixed income in places like Dublin. But Ireland are going from a net taker from the EU budget for decades, to a net giver, with an estimated E500.000 they will have to find to give to the EU budget (E500,000 less back than they pay in).

For value for money for those on a low to medium fixed budget, and for the warm weather, and for the fact that they are a country that relies on tourism and on retirees moving to their country to boost their economy, Portugal could be a good choice. Lots of Germans and Brits have chosen to retire to Portugal.
« Last Edit: June 03, 2018, 07:38:26 PM by Sirius »


  • *
  • Posts: 5938

  • Liked: 726
  • Joined: Sep 2015
Yeah, too bad Portugal has warm weather, otherwise it sounds lovely. The tax benefits are good. The cost of housing is good. The government is (at present) welcoming. But it's warm. ;D
« Last Edit: June 03, 2018, 08:20:12 PM by Nan D. »


  • *
  • Posts: 3944

  • Liked: 348
  • Joined: Sep 2014
Yeah, too bad Portugal has warm weather, otherwise it sounds lovely.


 ;D That's what puts me off Portugal. Any sun and I burn like crazy.

Malta is nice and English speaking, but is also very hot. A friend's parents have lived there for about 50 years and their only complaint is that all the night clubs being built, are getting nearer and nearer to their once rural property.
« Last Edit: June 03, 2018, 07:52:16 PM by Sirius »


  • *
  • Posts: 5938

  • Liked: 726
  • Joined: Sep 2015
I have got to get a handle on not hitting post before I'm done!


Yeah. Sun and hot are evil. Cool and cloudy and misty are heaven-on-earth. No headaches. No sunburn. No heat-exhaustion. (sigh)  Argyll is my current dream home, for the "someday."

But to continue


It was the same when the EU and the UK brought in the changes that I mentioned in my previous post, no grandfathering as it was shuting down abuse.

Except that the American retirees were not abusing anything. They had been told they could move there to live, they were paying their own way, etc. I still think it was just a bad implementation of policy. The Irish are within their rights to require any income for retirees they wish to set, but to slap something retroactively on people who had been "welcomed" previously is not exactly what I would consider ethical. For people wanting to settle, going forward, fine. But, hey, I don't get to make the decisions. ;)

Yes I read that the SNP planned to raise the Income Tax of high earners in Scotland, to try to start to fill their annual 15/16 billion financial black hole, that massive shortfall  that is presently given to Scotland by rest of the UK. From what I recall from the articles in the Scottish papers, it was pointed out that the high earners are only 1% of those living in Scotland, but they provide 19% of the Income Tax taken by the Scotttish government and that many of these could easily move to England. I assumed that's why they created all the lower income brackets, to start raising their taxes instead?

Hard to say. There's an increasing hum on the streets for IndiRef2, and depending on how Brexit goes, we may see that. It's going to be a rough ride no matter how Brexit happens, I think. But a hard Brexit would devastate the UK.  (Interesting article at https://www.aljazeera.com/indepth/opinion/2017/03/england-big-loser-brexit-170312092648577.html )

There are some staggeringly wealthy people in Scotland, and quite a bit of the land is owned by a very few individuals still (left over from a previous era). It will be interesting to see how things play out in the next few years. If Scotland goes independent, I wonder if they'll do what the Irish did about redistribution of land from the mega-landholders?

I keep seeing howling about EU funds that flow to Scotland that will vanish with Brexit - I doubt they're going to be made up from other UK sources (or, rather, would be surprised if they were). I believe the west coast of England, Wales, and Scotland are going to really suffer from Brexit. I have no feel for Northern Ireland, but as UK spending per capita there is already higher than in Scotland, I would imagine they'll be hurting more than most.  https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2018/jan/15/brexit-could-cost-scottish-economy-report-nicola-sturgeon

I hope I'm wrong, but for those folks who are already living on the lower margins, if food becomes scarce or prices shoot up, or if support services dry up, they will suffer. 

I still think (and this has nothing to do with the Daughter or me being here) that Brexit was not thought through and that a lot of "leave" people were sold a pig in a poke. I really don't think that there was a clear understanding of what they were voting for - what it actually would mean, day-to-day. There was too much jingoistic rhetoric involved to let me believe otherwise. And it's going to cost all four "countries", painfully.  Scotland didn't vote to leave. Northern Ireland didn't vote to leave. But they're going to get dragged along anyway.

As for us, we'd like to stay here in Scotland and ride it out. But we have an 'out' if things get so bad that we need one. Someone with only UK citizenship won't. This all just feels very, very bad coming down the pipeline. :-\\\\


Yes,. I have Irish friends who live in the Republic, so I know how the Irish healthcare system works.  :)

Cool. I bet the OP has no idea, though.  ;) ;D

I have so freaking many relatives in Ireland, and getting straight info out of them is... challenging. It seems to be a national trait. And you can't just get a "yes" or a "no" - and especially a "no". They'll go miles around it to avoid saying a simple, straightforward "no"!
« Last Edit: June 03, 2018, 08:46:05 PM by Nan D. »


  • *
  • Posts: 248

  • Liked: 3
  • Joined: Dec 2007


What are you looking for?  Other than to have new cultural experiences.  How do you see yourself living and spending your time?

Excellent question. Honestly, we plan to take things just one day at a time. Living our lives to the fullest, and along the way try and travel to see as many places possible. We don't have to move to Europe to accomplish these goals but we figure why not be right in the middle of the action as residents instead of just popping in as visitors. We're both in our mid 50s and free to pick-up and go. Any additional benefit for this move is down to enjoying a different prospective. Not focusing on work and instead put the emphasis on the bigger picture of life. Just being!

  Now we just need to select the right place to call home. I just started looking at houses to purchase and it's good to see that the prices aren't much different than here in the States. The houses in Spain appear to be more modern than those in France. And the cost in France, Spain and Ireland are either less expensive, equal in price or about 9% more.

But we're only in the beginning stages. So we have quite a lot to do. Darling wife is interested in buying a older house( maybe historic period) and restoring it to it's best form while I'd rather buy something that is turnkey. But the problem with that is someone else has already done the work to earn the appreciation in equity. Not to mention the issue of rules governing listed homes. Can be somewhat problematic.


  • *
  • Posts: 17769

  • Liked: 6118
  • Joined: Sep 2010
But we're only in the beginning stages. So we have quite a lot to do. Darling wife is interested in buying a older house( maybe historic period) and restoring it to it's best form while I'd rather buy something that is turnkey. But the problem with that is someone else has already done the work to earn the appreciation in equity. Not to mention the issue of rules governing listed homes. Can be somewhat problematic.

I wouldn't rush in to buying a property. I think it's safer to rent for a good long time first!  :)

And when you do, make sure you have a good handle on the bureaucracy involved! :)


  • *
  • Posts: 248

  • Liked: 3
  • Joined: Dec 2007
I'm starting to question if Ireland could work for the Mrs. It rains nearly 160 days per year. Not sure she could handle that. At this point France and Spain are far out front as choice one and two.


Sponsored Links





 

coloured_drab